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Process A: you mix a song, have the peaks hitting at about -6db, bounce the song, then turn the volume up along with using the usual dynamic processing in a new window.

Process B: you mix a song with the peaks hitting at 0db, and apply a master chain with similar processing to A.

I've always used process A, but recently i've been writing with my master gain at 0db so that any headroom issues are immediately obvious. I am very close to finishing a track, and it sounds more or less as full as a standard song does. So, if i then turned this down to -6db and turned it up using Process A, is it not just a longer winded version of doing exactly the same thing?

This strikes me as either a trivial question, or a stupid one.....but the thought crossed my mind earlier and as I can't think of the answer for myself, I thought somebody else might know

As I understand it, the reason for mixing up to -6 (or my personal preference -3) as opposed to mixing up to 0 is so that you're not chasing your tail later lowering every element in your song if at some point down the line you add an element that pushes you past 0. And if you're getting the track mastered that extra 3db of space gives the ME some room to work.

Mixing up to zero always makes for a better result since you're more in tune with how equalized your drums are with your synths and bass and whatnot. Personally, I mix to -6, but i realize that 0 gives better results because you can hear the sound alot better. The way you do it is fine coz everyone has their own standards/techniques with volume mastering. as long as it sounds great on monitors then you're good to go.

IMO the main reason to do a mix to -6db, is if you decide that something you balanced in early on is too quiet/lost in the mix (for example your kick), but everything else is fine, you then have headroom to increase the level/work on it. If you mixed everything to 0, you have to turn everything else down to get the same effect, and have more chance of unbalancing the mix you just made...if that makes sense.

Another important thing is mixing to -6db gives the mastering engineer room to process the audio as adding whatever he adds before limiting could increase the peak level. If you sent an ME a track peaking at 0db, all they'd do is turn it down or get you to send another mix peaking lower...

What happens if you mix everything to -6db, then turn your monitors up so the level is the same as when you mixed to 0? Does it still have the same fullness?

Getting a track to be able to be really pushed during mastering can be helped by:

- Little to no reverb
- Midrange presence (your ear is most sensitive around the 1khz-5khz region)
- Consistent transient levels
- Sub bass roughly equal to rest of mix - check this in a spectrum analyzer

Of course there's more but it's early - that's all I can think of at the minute!

ALSO !!When you're doing your mixdown you should be able to talk normally over the volume of your monitors. How your ear perceives sound changes with loudness and mixing at a low volume gives a better result. If it sounds good quiet then it will sound good loud, but not necessarily the other way around!!

Rappone wrote:Personally, I mix to -6, but i realize that 0 gives better results because you can hear the sound alot better.

Up to 0 doesn't really sound any better, it just sounds louder, and your brain perceives that as sounding better. It's the same thing as mixing up to -6 and just turning your monitors up, so there's really no reason not to. In a 32 bit floating environment you have more that 144db of headroom and you can always get quieter without losing quality, but the same cant be said for getting louder if getting louder means passing 0db.

Oh, another reason for mixing up to -6 is you get the most out of your fader's resolution.

some good points here... to be clear when i say mixing to 0db or -6db it's just on the daw, i just turn my monitors up or down accordingly. i suppose perhaps the answers that stick out so far is not constantly having to watch your db until the mix (i just happen to prefer it this way as i find the end result sits together better) - and leaving headroom for the ME.

Triphosphate wrote:

Rappone wrote:
Oh, another reason for mixing up to -6 is you get the most out of your fader's resolution.

what do you mean by this?

i love theory

is this shinra who did a release on a free comp with loveloverecords? if so I still listen to 1985! I used to live close to The Fez! (moved to london now) bigup! searched you up on SC

ps: I mix down for -6 for ontopics sake

Corporal F wrote:If it sounds good quiet then it will sound good loud, but not necessarily the other way around!!

Not really, no. It can sound good quiet but not so good loud.

About the headroom, I do agree, and that's why I work at -6.

When it comes down to it, it depends on how you're most comfortable working, once you get the knack of it and have everything in tune, you're good to go.

Fader resolution is hard to explain. Take a look at the volume markers on your fader and notice that -4, -6, and -8 are about the same distance from each other but that as you reach the top and bottom of the fader that the 2db increments get closer to each other. So when you keep a sound in the middle of the fader you have more detailed control over it's levels.

SKIN E wrote:is this shinra who did a release on a free comp with loveloverecords?

i'm basically him but way more handsome. (in other words no, sorry, different shinra. gutted someone's used the name before me )

it looks like the general consensus is to mix to -6db. i'll probably still write at 0db and then turn it down but it's still going to annoy the fk out of me that i don't know why i have to? if anyone makes any progress do let me know...

If you dont intend to do any mastering yourself or by an ME you could mix to around -0db but I think you've been given several good reasons not to. The truth is raising the peak volume to near zero is is easy to do w/o distortion. Also you can just turn up your monitors. Also...make sure you are understanding that mixing and mastering are two different processes. Mix to get dynamics and punch. Master for loudness.

fragments wrote:Mix to get dynamics and punch. Master for loudness.

A good mastering increase loudness, tonal balance and dynamics perception as well.