Dubstepforum.com

But the loudness war could be doing more than simply pumping up the volume and angering aficionados — it could be responsible for halting technological advances in sound quality for years to come... From the mid 1980s to now, the average loudness of CDs increased by a factor of 10, and the peaks of songs are now one-tenth of what they used to be.

Found this sweet article about loudness and overcompression via slashdot.

Worth a read.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/aug07/5429

Yeah, an interesting (but to be honest also well-discussed before) phenomenon.

Yeah, this is really shitty and bothers me quite a bit.

I go to a few '80s clubs and those tracks still sound great on big systems. Big and airy with massive (by today's standards) dynamics. Actual quietness and loudness.

Dubstep seems like it could really do with the 'space' instead of thick wall of sound.

I wonder if we could theoretically just all agree to moderately master with a little peak-slap to glue things together, instead of brick wall from now on?

It would be quite revolutionary. Or, retrolutionary.

Tubby got dynamics. Burial ain't far off.

Yeah, I'm in.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in all seriousness... this is true, and i think the loudness war sucks. but what do we (as individuals) do about it?

I think that is Misk speak for: "I'm tired of hyper compression. We've painted ourselves into a corner. Let's fix this shit up NOW"

Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forward...


I'd love to hear what Transition has to say on this. -Maybe there's other reasons for super squashing than simply being louder than the previous band played on the radio?


Misk, I think we can't do anything as individuals. We have to all cooperate and act as a unit. A movement. Everybody would have to be in on it -DJs don't want to be adjusting the gain wildly between each and every track.

I use to to try and make my tracks as loud as possible!

But i forgot that mixers and cd players had gains on them

two oh one wrote:I think that is Misk speak for: "I'm tired of hyper compression. We've painted ourselves into a corner. Let's fix this shit up NOW"

Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forward...


I'd love to hear what Transition has to say on this. -Maybe there's other reasons for super squashing than simply being louder than the previous band played on the radio?


Misk, I think we can't do anything as individuals. We have to all cooperate and act as a unit. A movement. Everybody would have to be in on it -DJs don't want to be adjusting the gain wildly between each and every track.

yeah your pretty much spot on there i remember when you had to play with the gains on a DJ mixer when your were mixing tunes. you dont have to do that as much these days do you?...

lets start a movement. Im personally, tired of everything being RFL.

Misk wrote:

two oh one wrote:I think that is Misk speak for: "I'm tired of hyper compression. We've painted ourselves into a corner. Let's fix this shit up NOW"

Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forward...


I'd love to hear what Transition has to say on this. -Maybe there's other reasons for super squashing than simply being louder than the previous band played on the radio?


Misk, I think we can't do anything as individuals. We have to all cooperate and act as a unit. A movement. Everybody would have to be in on it -DJs don't want to be adjusting the gain wildly between each and every track.

yeah your pretty much spot on there i remember when you had to play with the gains on a DJ mixer when your were mixing tunes. you dont have to do that as much these days do you?...

lets start a movement. Im personally, tired of everything being RFL.

Let's get some feedback from MEs and then figure out just how we can set this up.

Maybe we could be missing a massive show stopping pitfall in our thinking, but having said that, there are older, less squashed records that I know sound fantastic on big systems. Would people on the dancefloor dig it as much as we do? Are people just too used to the thickness now?

It could potentially be a massive thing that could alter the whole landscape for the better...

CRYPTIC wrote:I use to to try and make my tracks as loud as possible!

But i forgot that mixers and cd players had gains on them

The thing is most clubs are running their soundsystems at maximum volume with the mixer also redlined.

If I'm playing a super loud Scream or Benga track which is gained up to the maximum on the mixer then I drop you're quiet track also gained up to the red, you're track is going to have far less energy in the club than the loud one.

seems like alot of "dance" music genres shouldnt really be affected by this,,, theyre supposed to be loud... techno/house.... dont think theres meant to be a lot of dynamics... the argument can be made that its ruining rock music, but i dont really give a fuck what theyre doing to rock music, most of it ruined itself a long time ago. they want their song to be as loud as the one that just got played before it on the radio.
folk music isnt getting over compressed, classical isnt, jazz isnt, its just commercial rock, hip hop, and dance music

i am compression

loetech wrote:i am compression

AHAHAHAHAH!! dude thats the best thing that anyone has said on this forum in months! fucking classic!

i dont even notice that kind of stuff... maybe youll think : dumbass, but yea sorry i dont rly look on volumes and gains.. just gimme music

NoSpin wrote:seems like alot of "dance" music genres shouldnt really be affected by this,,, theyre supposed to be loud... techno/house.... dont think theres meant to be a lot of dynamics... the argument can be made that its ruining rock music, but i dont really give a fuck what theyre doing to rock music, most of it ruined itself a long time ago. they want their song to be as loud as the one that just got played before it on the radio.
folk music isnt getting over compressed, classical isnt, jazz isnt, its just commercial rock, hip hop, and dance music

I'm with this guy.

NoSpin wrote:seems like alot of "dance" music genres shouldnt really be affected by this,,, theyre supposed to be loud... techno/house.... dont think theres meant to be a lot of dynamics...

Well, there's bass drops and breakdowns for a start.

But there are other issues with it that can mess up dubstep as much as they can mess up rock. Firstly, when this sort of squashing gets serious you start to get audible distortion which makes the music pretty unpleasant to listen to over an extended period of time.

Secondly, excessive compression messes with your ability to make different bits of the bar louder or quieter (a process known as 'rhythm'), since every ghost hit or unaccented note or dropout is (as far as a compressor can tell) a wasted opportunity to make something louder. I've heard DnB tunes that have been so multiband-squeezed that all the drum hits come out sounding pretty much identical, and the whole thing just goes TAK-TAK-TAK-TAK-TAK-TAK-TAK-TAK-TAK-TAK-TAK-TAK-TAK-TAK-TAK at 180bpm forever.

I guess a third problem is that producers tend to get so bogged down in optimizing the settings on their multiband compressors that they forget about minor points like actually doing anything musically interesting. Which reminds me - the whole arms race thing only really becomes a big problem if your tune sounds exactly like the previous one but a bit louder or a bit quieter. So there's a fairly simple way to sidestep it...

Oh well, maybe 4 bit, 96k is the future?

two oh one wrote:Oh well, maybe 4 bit, 96k is the future?

mmm crunchy

Surely dubstep doesn't need compression that much at all?

There's so much space in the music, so much air, that it's not we're trying to squeeze things in.

Maybe for the odd snare, or to gel one or two bits together or something, but surely not much elsewhere?

Perhaps it's just 'cos I'm not too good at using it!