Are you an artist?

[hutyluty]

It's a tad dull round here with the forum basically full of the same technical questions asked again and again so i thought i'd start a good old arty farty debate.

What I want to know is: do you consider your music to be art?

Obviously this question hinges on what one's definition of art actually is- is it merely self-expression in any form or is it infact only that which is truly heartfelt?

For me, calling myself an artist waters down the meaning I place on the word- when I make music I seek to express myself yet I can never break free of the feeling that I am simply going through the motions, stuff I make really being what I can create rather than what I want to create. When I make a 'house track' I'm not contributing anything new, simply rehashing old ones in ways done so many times before. Really, it's the same as most of you guys who make the same bro or dungeon tracks over and over, there's no spark there just so meone creating a piece of work based throuvh the narrowest restrictions , in my mind at least it's like a group of people all lining up to produce copies of 'Gernika'. It looks/sounds the same but none of the original inspiration or feeling is there.
Maybe I'm just putting those I look up to on too higher pedestal- after all noone is truly original right, but in my mind noone who goes out to copy can be considered an artist.

Disclaimer: on comedown atm- rose tinted spectacles left in havana.

[test_recordings]

Yes, to create an experience that can be perceived by others. I normally think of a scene, often quite bereft of humanity but still a tangible place, that I try to recreate. Every movement of energy is something, it's existence isn't inherently purposeful but can see focussed on like watching a fly around your head or a stray sunbeam penetrating clouds...

For instance, one single repeat of a delay on one note will repeat again and again and again, maybe changing as it goes through the cycle as it is altered by a filter to sculpt it's form, though it is that same note as much as a child goes through life to become an adult before ultimately dying and the inherent energy of the body becomes something else.

That's why I prefer analogue: I am channeling forces of the universe with my fingers in real time. I can even make my fingers part of the circuitry, ring-modulate my pulse to a sine wave so that it follows the peaks and shallows of the music, use my mouth as an echo chamber, and so on. The detail and intricacy of the real world CANNOT be matched digitally, even the Matrix is not a perfect replica and only a facade for oblivion. Tape owns DAW for that purpose, the continuous wave forms at any one time hold more data than the most advanced supercomputer just by sheer weight of physics in their existence...

[ehbes]

I consider myself an artist with my photography, not my music. don't ask me why tho, cuz i couldnt tell you

[Murtagh]

Yes

[fragments]

I think this is a major problem with all creative pursuits--is that it's been done before. And from that has arisen the stigma of "being weird just to be weird" (think of that Hipster friend of yours who's band is a guy on a harmonic, a female vocalist who can't sign (on purpose) and a guy who pokes a cat with a stick to make meow) versus someone who is out sooooo out there because they are honestly trying to do something new.

When I listen to a lot of people's music this is something I think about (whether it's one of you guys on DSF, another music forum, or on a new release from one of the big boys/girls). In some cases I often here stuff that adheres strictly to genre conventions, but I still "feel" something authentic about the music and in other cases I hear what sounds like going through the motions.

The idea of stuff sounding "cooker cutter" for me is really just a lack of soul. My mother always yells at my dad for listening blues music because it all sounds the same. I don't disagree with her. If one sense she isn't wrong. But I here new versions of old blues songs and new stuff using those same progressions and scales that just sounds awesome for whatever reason.

My big bitch with electronic music, not just dance electronic, is I wish people would kindly remove themselves from the technical circle jerk (mixing/sound design) and write fucking songs once in a while. 90% of dance music is really only interesting if you are drunk as fuck or off your tits on chemicals at the club because it's fun to bounce around to. That goes for deep/dungeon, bro, house, techno, breaks, jungle, dnb, juke, moomba-whatever, trap...and I've no beef with that...it's dance music...but come one...I hear way too much paint by numbers shit where I feel like "OK, this is technically good...and if I was at the club after I few pints I'd be flying along with this...but meh..."

These days I'm off that...I make music for the people drifting off into the inner space of their mind between a pair of headphones or a HiFi system or driving around or walking at 3am just because.

I like to think of myself as an artist, I don't know if I succeed at it, but I try.

I'll end this rant by saying that all expressions that are intended to be authentic are authentic, but not all expressions are art.

[drake89]

yes

My big bitch with electronic music, not just dance electronic, is I wish people would kindly remove themselves from the technical circle jerk (mixing/sound design) and write fucking songs once in a while.

These days I'm off that...I make music for the people drifting off into the inner space of their mind between a pair of headphones or a HiFi system or driving around or walking at 3am just because.

I'll end this rant by saying that all expressions that are intended to be authentic are authentic, but not all expressions are art.

all of my sentiments exactry

[Mason]

by definition i spose we all are but i wouldn't label myself as one and dont really consider myself an artist tbh

[hasezwei]

i am not, cause i'm still learning.
when i've chosen and mastered my tools, THEN i can turn my artistic vision into reality. and only then will i be an artist.

[hasezwei]

until that point, all .wav and .mp3 files i create are merely excercises, doodles, results of working on skills.

[fragments]

@hasezwei: Really valid response, I wish more people thought along these lines. Do you really feel so amateur that your you can't consider you work artistic in some of it's qualities? I totally respect your opinion and goal and agree that there is a certain mastery of tools required for someone to be an artist, but as someone who teaches art (writing) I feel like even amateur's come up with great ideas (even if they can't fully develop them) and sometimes I feel like people who get too good at the tools loose something of that amateur that gave heat and adventure to their work.

[erratech]

It is not for you to decide whether what you create is art, it is for the listener. I dont really mind if they think its 'art' or not, I just feel humble that i can create something from nothing thats entire existance as an experience is transient and is both fragile and extremely strong. For me music is all about contrast in so many ways, altho you may not see that from the outside - but that is for the listener. I did an ep a while back and got a thorough review (might be in Cyclic Defrost online version sometime) and it was really interesting reading about my music from an outside perspective - peoples perceptions are always different to what you expect in some way or form.

I do agree with the comment about 'weird for the sake of weird', a negative reaction is still a reaction imo. My music isnt pushing any boundaries nor is it strictly confined by them (looking at you neurohop), but it is honest and i feel it has depth and replayability, expresses aspects of who i am that arent communicable by words - and beyond that it makes me happy that i can elicit a response in people, and even in myself simply by manipulating soundwaves.

[hasezwei]

@hasezwei: Really valid response, I wish more people thought along these lines. Do you really feel so amateur that your you can't consider you work artistic in some of it's qualities? I totally respect your opinion and goal and agree that there is a certain mastery of tools required for someone to be an artist, but as someone who teaches art (writing) I feel like even amateur's come up with great ideas (even if they can't fully develop them) and sometimes I feel like people who get too good at the tools loose something of that amateur that gave heat and adventure to their work.

warning, the following is probably gonna sound uber pretentious:

i have learned a lot of production knowledge and that has gotten me into a very technical, club-oriented approach that clouds my mind. a great artist can work effortlessly, and it is that level of skill i want to reach with computer music.
for me that means creating a setup by choosing tools, midi controllers, samples, vst's et cetera that allow me a hands-on immediate approach where the route from idea in my head to audible result is as short as possible.
i also want to create entry points for my friends to participate in the process of making music without them having to know about production. already found some nice bits for ableton and currently thinking of stuff to do with a microphone and a korg nanokontrol (cause that's the only controller i can afford )

anyway, until i've reached that point and created art (be it in performance, the music itself or some other weird thing i might end up creating) i will not call myself an artist.

i'm pretty good at making beats tho

[dickman69]

i create sonic collages

[fragments]

It is not for you to decide whether what you create is art, it is for the listener.

Even though I love post modernism sometimes, artistic intention is important. If it's completely up to the audience then we get into situations where the audience is calling things art for the sake of being weird. Then we get people clamming things like every time someone shits the random combination of their metabolism and the things they've eaten have created art. I refuse to live in that world.

@hasezwei: Really valid response, I wish more people thought along these lines. Do you really feel so amateur that your you can't consider you work artistic in some of it's qualities? I totally respect your opinion and goal and agree that there is a certain mastery of tools required for someone to be an artist, but as someone who teaches art (writing) I feel like even amateur's come up with great ideas (even if they can't fully develop them) and sometimes I feel like people who get too good at the tools loose something of that amateur that gave heat and adventure to their work.

warning, the following is probably gonna sound uber pretentious:

i have learned a lot of production knowledge and that has gotten me into a very technical, club-oriented approach that clouds my mind. a great artist can work effortlessly, and it is that level of skill i want to reach with computer music.
for me that means creating a setup by choosing tools, midi controllers, samples, vst's et cetera that allow me a hands-on immediate approach where the route from idea in my head to audible result is as short as possible.
i also want to create entry points for my friends to participate in the process of making music without them having to know about production. already found some nice bits for ableton and currently thinking of stuff to do with a microphone and a korg nanokontrol (cause that's the only controller i can afford )

anyway, until i've reached that point and created art (be it in performance, the music itself or some other weird thing i might end up creating) i will not call myself an artist.

i'm pretty good at making beats tho

While I appreciate your opinion and I agree that the process of creation is usually where many artists gets most of their satisfaction I think saying what you make isn't art because you aren't working as fast as you like or have the tools you would prefer is a put down to yourself and others. That just seems ridiculous to be quite frank. Lots of artists spend years refining something. Yes, it's preferable to get your good basic ideas down quickly, but are you saying that the Sistine Chapel isn't art because it took Michelangelo years to complete it? I think/hope I'm misunderstanding you.

[CYRHEN]

#Yass

[hasezwei]

It is not for you to decide whether what you create is art, it is for the listener.

Even though I love post modernism sometimes, artistic intention is important. If it's completely up to the audience then we get into situations where the audience is calling things art for the sake of being weird. Then we get people clamming things like every time someone shits the random combination of their metabolism and the things they've eaten have created art. I refuse to live in that world.

@hasezwei: Really valid response, I wish more people thought along these lines. Do you really feel so amateur that your you can't consider you work artistic in some of it's qualities? I totally respect your opinion and goal and agree that there is a certain mastery of tools required for someone to be an artist, but as someone who teaches art (writing) I feel like even amateur's come up with great ideas (even if they can't fully develop them) and sometimes I feel like people who get too good at the tools loose something of that amateur that gave heat and adventure to their work.

warning, the following is probably gonna sound uber pretentious:

i have learned a lot of production knowledge and that has gotten me into a very technical, club-oriented approach that clouds my mind. a great artist can work effortlessly, and it is that level of skill i want to reach with computer music.
for me that means creating a setup by choosing tools, midi controllers, samples, vst's et cetera that allow me a hands-on immediate approach where the route from idea in my head to audible result is as short as possible.
i also want to create entry points for my friends to participate in the process of making music without them having to know about production. already found some nice bits for ableton and currently thinking of stuff to do with a microphone and a korg nanokontrol (cause that's the only controller i can afford )

anyway, until i've reached that point and created art (be it in performance, the music itself or some other weird thing i might end up creating) i will not call myself an artist.

i'm pretty good at making beats tho

While I appreciate your opinion and I agree that the process of creation is usually where many artists gets most of their satisfaction I think saying what you make isn't art because you aren't working as fast as you like or have the tools you would prefer is a put down to yourself and others. That just seems ridiculous to be quite frank. Lots of artists spend years refining something. Yes, it's preferable to get your good basic ideas down quickly, but are you saying that the Sistine Chapel isn't art because it took Michelangelo years to complete it? I think/hope I'm misunderstanding you.

dont worry you misunderstood me
now as an example: right now tune ideas in my head are somewhat random, mostly based on what i currently dig. so if i have a kickass jungly breakstep tune in my head cause i've been listening to toasty lately, i swear to god in my head it is 100% there. i have that tune in my head and it sounds amazing. so naturally i run to my computer, fire up my DAW and start writing it down.

but wait, something's wrong! i can't find any snare sample that sounds like it does in my head! the kick doesn't punch in the same way, i need to get the sub a little warmer, maybe some tube saturation? should i compress the drums? et cetera et cetera
long story short, the tune will never get made.

but if i have built myself a nicely balanced arsenal of virtual instruments with dedicated hands-on control, and i jam with this setup like there's no tomorrow til i know it inside out, then i become accustomed to it in a way that the tune ideas in my head will be possible to make with that setup. untainted by notions like OMG THE SNARE MUST HIT HARDER
of course i will do my best to refine and perfect it, i wouldn't want to release something i'm not happy with.

[fragments]

^I see. Thank you! Yea, I think finding the tools that work for you is something a lot of people trade in favor of trying to use tools that work for other people. I finally feel like gear/software, technical knowledge and a relationship with my setup is falling together even though I've been selling and replace a lot of gear lately. Right on man. Hope you get there

[NinjaEdit]

Every human is an artist. Some of what is being discussed is whether someone is a professional artist, which is decided by income.

[fragments]

Every human is an artist. Some of what is being discussed is whether someone is a professional artist, which is decided by income.

That's just semantics and word games, the fact is there are some that have "It" and some that don't. This is determined by a combination of intent (powered by will/perseverance/practice) and perceptions of the audience.

Saying everyone is an artist but some are professionals is just being politically correct or saying everyone gets a trophy. All you need to do is watch American Idol.

And where do you get the idea income has anything to do with whether someone is an artist or not? Many of the best artists (determined by society) have lived most of their lives poor and died in relative poverty.

Edited because I got nasty for no reason, sorry.

[Soulstep]

imo,If you can imagine something then take that idea and display it by whatever medium(to a good standard) so everyone else can get the picture, your an artist to some degree