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Alright, I admit, I'm a crack addict.

This year, I plan, no, I AM, going to buy a new DAW. The reason why I haven't yet, is, well, mainly focusing on the hardware part, so I'll be getting the DAW during the winter (xmas). Now, I'm sort of stuck. I want Logic more than anything, but do not have $1500 to shell out to get a MacBook Pro, then another $200 for Logic itself, so my only other alternative that I'm really looking into is Ableton (8, not 9). If you wonderful folks would help me out on making the best decision, I would greatly appreciate it.

Now, workflow is not a problem, because I can quickly adjust. Also, not Reaper, because I tried it for a week or so, and hated it.

I normally work with audio files, but I will occasionally use MIDI for my drums. So, any thoughts?

Any suggestion is welcome, so long as it's not Reaper.

ye i like ablton

Ableton/FL.

Both of them are progressing and highly underrated in many ways.

Ficticious wrote:Ableton/FL.

Both of them are progressing and highly underrated in many ways.

Any idea what the difference between the suite and normal versions of Ableton Live 8 are? I'd read it up, but Sweetwater and nearly every other place have both listing the same stuff.

sofarmusic wrote:

Ficticious wrote:Ableton/FL.

Both of them are progressing and highly underrated in many ways.

Any idea what the difference between the suite and normal versions of Ableton Live 8 are? I'd read it up, but Sweetwater and nearly every other place have both listing the same stuff.

look into ableton 9 instead man, I suggest starting there if you're liking that DAW.

Ficticious wrote:

sofarmusic wrote:

Ficticious wrote:Ableton/FL.

Both of them are progressing and highly underrated in many ways.

Any idea what the difference between the suite and normal versions of Ableton Live 8 are? I'd read it up, but Sweetwater and nearly every other place have both listing the same stuff.

look into ableton 9 instead man, I suggest starting there if you're liking that DAW.

WAY out of my price range. Ableton Live 8 will be perfectly fine for me. 9 hasn't even released (I don't think) it's already costing like $700 for the normal version.

FL or StudioOne.

I love Ableton for messing round in with sound design, but the automation is seriously shit. You can't scale automation once you've drawn it in, the curves aren't propler bezier curves - you can only adjust them up or down. The automation goes out of timing if you add a plugin after it, it's still not fixed.

It took them years to bring out 9 - and we get Push, made by a third party, the Glue compressor, made by a third party, and half assed automation curves. The new browser sucks, it's more geared up for their own content.

I'm hoping that the programmers that left Ableton were the talent, as they're making Bitwig. It looks like they're really pushing the envelope with some of the features. Whereas Ableton has just stood still for the past few years really.

VirtualMark wrote:I love Ableton for messing round in with sound design, but the automation is seriously shit. You can't scale automation once you've drawn it in, the curves aren't propler bezier curves - you can only adjust them up or down. The automation goes out of timing if you add a plugin after it, it's still not fixed.

It took them years to bring out 9 - and we get Push, made by a third party, the Glue compressor, made by a third party, and half assed automation curves. The new browser sucks, it's more geared up for their own content.

I'm hoping that the programmers that left Ableton were the talent, as they're making Bitwig. It looks like they're really pushing the envelope with some of the features. Whereas Ableton has just stood still for the past few years really.

I would go with FL, but spending months on it's awkward workflow was painstaking enough. I'm really just looking for the best (bang for my buck).

Yeah, it's not an easy choice. I use Cubase for production, i'm pretty happy with it at the moment. There's a few things I don't like tho, for example - I'd like to be able to build racks like in Ableton, but Cubase only has 8 quick controls. I read a post on their forum from about 5 years ago, where someone asked about having more quick controls - their response was "what would you need THAT for". Not a good attitude to have to your customers IMO. And their updates aren't great either - chord tracks look useful, but the new mixer looks pointless. Well, pointless for my needs anyhow.

I posted a pic the other day, Bitwig has drag and drop! It's by far my favourite way of using modulation - it's really well suited to producing on a computer. I honestly don't know why synths are still using mod matrices, it takes twice as long to program. Drag and drop combined with macro controls is the way forward.

I might be totally wrong and Bitwig might turn out to be crap, I'm just holding out hope at the moment as there's not much else going on.

Ableton Push - are people really going to spend years learning to play this? I'd rather learn to play the keyboard as it's a proper instrument and will still be round in 20 years time.

Yeah, I tried Reaper for a bit, it felt really counter intuitive to me. It's probably the best value out of all of the DAWs tho, I just didn't like it. Endless menus of settings, and just trying to do simple things like editing midi notes felt wrong.

What didn't you like about Reaper?

Disco Nutter wrote:What didn't you like about Reaper?

Well, to be fair I didn't try it for long. Pretty much everything that I do in Cubase is different in Reaper, I don't really want to change my workflow that much. And I didn't like the interface, the way a VST opens in a box, the way folder tracks work, the whole layout really. And customization is a nice thing to have, but there was an insane amount of options there, again I'd have to dedicate a large chunk of time to learning it. And for what - is the grass really greener?

The price is amazing tho - I have a lot of respect for them, as they let you really try it out before committing. I'll always be more inclined to support developers who support their customers.

If I spent a few months practising with Reaper, I might love it, but I've just spent the past couple of years learning Cubase, synths, theory etc - there comes a point when you have to draw the line and just get on with making music!

Op why did you say ableton is your only other option besides logic...

My question was actually directed towards the OP, but I don't mind reading other people's opinion.

I've been using Ableton Live for quite some time now, but I recently switched to Reaper. It has some amazing functions which really come in handy in what I do. And that price tag? That trial period? Superb.

Ah I didn't realise - it was right under my last comment about Reaper lol.

What do you like about Reaper? What functions do you mean?

Which functions do I like? Don't even know where to start!

Disco Nutter wrote:Which functions do I like? Don't even know where to start!

Well does it do anything that was harder to do in other software? Does it have any unique features?

You came from Ableton, how did it compare? Have you used any other DAWs?

I'm just interested as a lot of people swear by Reaper. One thing I did like was the fact that you click on your Reaper icon - 2 seconds later the program is running! And it was only a few mb download - I'm a fan of efficient software!

It definitely starts up 10 times faster than Live.

Other things that pop up in my mind right now, that I really missed in Live - groups in groups, jog/scrub, amazing routing, take-based FX, better crossfade control, better FX freezing (you can freeze send channels), touch/latch/trim/read automation modes, hiding tracks, a superb price tag ($60!)... These are some of the things I really missed in Live, not the cool features I randomly stumbled upon while toying with Reaper.

What is your budget? You could get a (used) macbook air wand logic for less then $1000 id imagine.

Since you said you dont care for reaper (which was going to be my other suggestion), id say Studio One. If your feeling cheap, you can find them used all the time.

if you like Logic, then do give Studio One a go. try the demo version, its fully functional for 30 days.

this things got the fastest workflow and some proper native effects.