*Should* a sub bass pitch match it's midrange counterpart?

[Sinergy]

So I've got a "drop" and the midrange synth goes G-F-D-E, so I got a sine wave to play those same notes underneath it, blah blah blah.

I notice that these sub notes are pretty low, the highest being G which is playing like 50hz, which is fine, but some of those other notes just really aren't very sweet and *most* system that aren't super high-end, I';m not sure if those frequencies will be really pronounced (The D goes like, 40ish)

If I pitch it up an octave it's simply too high and sounds not very good. I mean, you can't just avoid using these notes...

So my question is, how do you deal with this problem, I'd assume, and I could be wrong, but it makes sense that the sub notes should be the same note as the midrange? I don't have a lot of musical background so I'm not sure, it just seems like that would be a "rule".

Suggestions?

[Genevieve]

D# is usually the lower-limit on most system, yeah, but you'll still hear it. That's where it starts rolling off. But it also depends on the system. But man, who cares? Most notes are higher than that and in the perfect sub range. That sub is gonna mash dancefloor up eitherway. Even if the D is one semitone below "perfect", if.

You can copy the subtrack, add some saturation, and hi-pass that and gently mix that in to somewhat IMPLY the D too.

There's also systems that don't accurately give you an E or F either. Can't please 'em all. Just write big tunes.

[Sinergy]

Alright. I mean, I don't expect this tune or any of mine to get played on super huge systems, so it's, if the sub is way too low, then it's always going to be that underwhelming slight rumble in compared to other stuff.

I just switched the sub from a sine, to one of ableton's 808 drum machines, and it's sounding much better, butI'm not sure if I'm pitching correctly.

I've got the kick's "Tune", which is measured in percent from 1 to 100 (how the fuck is that helpful if you're trying to get notes?), and then I've got "Kick Tone" which is measured in semitones. I've automated the "Kick Tone" to the notes of midrange, but it doesn't seem like the 808 is actually pitching any differently, on a spectrum the kick hits in the same spot but nudges slightly with each note.

How does "Tone" differ from "Pitch"?

I know this is different form my original question, but I think the bigger picture here is me learning the mechanics of sub bass...

[Genevieve]

That sub ISN'T too low. MOST of those notes would be perfectly fine on MOST systems. There will be a gradual roll-off below the E or D# on most systems, but that's not always the case and it might even be below right below the F or F#. Did you read what I just posted? Those notes of yours are in the perfect sub bass range.

Literally, sub is the easiest aspect of the the mixdown to get right. Don't have anything but the kick go low, and don't have the kick overlapping with the sub and you've got yourself a sub-bass. There's barely anything going down there. There's 0 stereo and there won't be many harmonics or movement.

If the 808 sounds better, do that. It's pitched correctly if it suits what you're doing. Really don't overthink it.

If you want the 808 to be 'in tune', put a tuner VST (get a free one?) and check what pitch it's at. Tune it to C if you have to and map it to MIDI C key. Then you can just play it like a normal note.

[Sparxy]

there is no hard or fast rule. It really depends on the tune you're making. If it's sub-driven, you might have written a bouncy sub line that acts like the "lead" in which case your mid elements might just play off it. However if you've got a mid which is very "riffy" you may want to have your sub matching it, it'll make for a more cohesive sound and rather than having a sub, and a mid, the two together will sound like one mighty instrument.

The notes you've posted are pretty much in the perfect range for sub. If it were me, I would have the sub matching the mid riff exactly. You might not be able to fully appreciate what the sub is doing on your monitors, but trust, that D will come through very nicely on a good club rig. FYI the most powerful a sub can be is a pure sine. Anything else you add on top of it in terms of effects units etc, will make it more audible but it will be felt less. Again, if it were me and considering you've made a "riff" with the mids, i'd ditch the 808 and go with a sine wave with some effects (such as a hint of tube saturation) so it really follows your mids to a tee. It will sound meaty on any system man. That said, 808s can be wicked for subs and lots of producers use them, but personally i'd draw for an 808 when i'm using the sub to create a riff of its own, when the sub is the real focal point of the tune as opposed to the mids.

At the end of the day though tehre are no real rules, so do what works for you and if it sounds good, it sounds good, end of story. Having said that, "sounding good" can be subjective

[didge]

Dunno if I'm missing something here but... Why not just pitch *both* your sub and your midrange bass line up by 1/2/3/4/whatever semitones?

[Dahneboy]

you are overcomplicating things .. it honestly doesnt matter as long as it sounds good.. noobs worry too much about small details but its ok, process of learning

[Sparxy]

Dunno if I'm missing something here but... Why not just pitch *both* your sub and your midrange bass line up by 1/2/3/4/whatever semitones?

I don't think he even needs to do that. I think it's probably fine just the way it is. He says his notes go from G down to D, which all hit perfectly in the "sub bass" frequency region. He says that the D doesn't sound good... but a D will be felt more than heard and he is probably listening on speakers which can't reproduce that frequency anyway

Leave it as it is, I say. Or post up a clip and let us tell you

[FAARE FACED]

I agree on something that was said above, adding some saturation on the sub to create upper harmonics, so that you hear it even on a bad system. You won't feel the sine in your chest but you will have the impression of it cause you hear the upper harmonics.

If you don't want to lose the power of a pure sine tho, maybe you could have a 3rd instrument playing between the midrange and the sub. If you EQ carefully, making sure it doesnt clash with the sub and the mid (like highpass at 50 and lowpass at 80/90). I don't really know if it would work but theoritically that seems doable.

[titchbit]

I don't have time to read this whole thread, so someone may have already suggested this, but this is in response to the OP's 808 kick tuning issue.

I don't have it myself, but I hear good things about GTuner - http://freemusicsoftware.org/1099

[societyloser1]

It's best your sub bass is in tune with the rest of your music. I know hearing the pitch of sub bass isn't that obvious, but a lot of people can notice it if it's out of tune.
So with a little help of music theory you can help yourself out plus it's cooler if you try some variations between your (sub)bass and your mid.
If your D is to low you can try using another note, I don't know what scale your tune it's in.. But most of the time using the fifth note above your note would sound quite nice. I think you're writing in C (All the white keys) so try an A. You can also use the other note from the D chord, wich is the third note above D... F!

But yeah, like some people say try until it sounds fine.


By the way.. Your progression is maybe a little weird, because you don't really use a 1... Try an Eb (G minor instead of C major)! Now you're writing in a myxolydian scale which isn't that common in modern pop music!
Or ignore that stupid advice..