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compare with the nina kraviz in a bathtub debacle several months back, for reference.

Joe Muggs' commentary on how the disparity illustrates lingering sexism/misogyny in dance music (and everywhere else in culture, to be fair):
http://www.mixmag.net/words/features/se ... ting-naked

more than open to hearing opinions on the contrary but i think muggs makes some pretty convincing points

he does

hes a mug lol but hes right about this

not going

There's not much here actually. Not in either video nor the article imo.

He's pretty bang on with most of that.

nina kravitz tho


(no misogyny)

Can some helpful folk sum up to me why they're naked in the first place?

Yeah think this article is fairly spot on.

I think in general outside of the issue of double standards getting naked will provoke a lot of accusations though which is sort of a shame. I mean it'll always be viewed as attention grabbing or some attempt at promoting yourself with something that isn't your musical talents.

i love seth

hes nina's boy friend right?

Chris Pratt on showing off his body on Twitter:

“That was something else. I’ve never really felt any douchier than the day after I sent that photo out and I had all my friends tearing me apart on that one. But yeah, I guess I was. For the most part, it was pretty positive. I haven’t always been fat, but I’ve been fat for the last eight years or something, which is really fun and really great. I love eating food and drinking beer and having fun with my life. I was also kind of depressed a little bit when I was fat and there’s probably people out there who can agree and understand what that feels like.

“I’ll tell them, ‘Hey, if you just bust your ass and get after it, all it takes is like six months really.’ Six months flies by whether you’re working out every day or whether you’re not, so if you feel compelled to do something about it, take some action and get in shape, do it. You can do it. You could. You really could. You could do it in six months and all you have to do is just book a Marvel movie and have a deadline that’s like, ‘If you don’t [lose weight] then you might get fired,’ and then it’s easy.”

People hate people who are hotter than they are and know it.

Fat women who aren't classically considered 'attractive' and get naked and mock their own lack of general sex appeal have gotten to the same treatment as Seth Troxler as well.

Women have this luxury of being desired no matter what they do. Unlike men they don't have to prove their worth. So when they do something that they need to prove themselves in, they're criticized a little more harshly because they have a natural upperhand. I don't fault Nina for showing herself off to sell herself (I'm the biggest narcissist ever. When I'm in shape I never wear shirts because my bod's gorgeous) Some musicians rely on a bullshit mystique (Burial), silly outfits (Deadmau5) and those a little more beautiful can get away with showing a little skin. But people who rely on these types of marketing gimmicks will have to expect some flack for it.

If you think there's a double standard in accepting Seth mocking his own unattractive body, aware of what he brings to the table physically, versus Nina Kraviz capitalizing on her sex-appeal, then I think you're missing a lot of subtleties in both instances, or you just blindly wanna see misoginy. But like all nudity isn't pornography, not all nudity is selling sex either.

Soiree wrote:hes nina's boy friend right?

Nah that's Ben Klock

I don't know who or anything about Nina Kraviz, but some of the comments I read were directed at her not being very good at what she does and using her looks to get an edge. Is there any truth in that?

It doesn't bother me either way, I'd like to see a lot more girls involved in dance music production as it feels like a boys only club far too much. But on the other hand, it'd be shitty if girls felt pressured into using their sexuality to be noticed because of things like this.

ive listened to a few of her sets, she's certainly not bad, but its nothing spectacular.

but i guess there are people who are only interested in her for her looks, as opposed to her musical ability.

Genevieve wrote:Women have this luxury of being desired no matter what they do. Unlike men they don't have to prove their worth.

i'd beg to differ -- i think girls (attractive or not) struggle more to prove their worth for this very reason.

say you're hired for a very competitive position -- if a man gets the job, it's assumed that he's got the best credentials and experience, and his physical features don't really come into the picture, attractive or not.
if you're a hot chick, there's a certain sense of paranoia that you've gotten the job just because you're attractive (or that others will think so), and there's added pressure to prove yourself as more than just a pretty face.
if you're a not so hot chick, there's a sense you have to compensate for your lacking 'femininity' that gives your attractive female peers an advantage and, again, go the extra mile to prove yourself.

same goes in music -- scour a bunch of event reviews and you'll find that in the vast majority of pieces on female musicians/DJs, her appearance is mentioned in some way or form (whether it's blatantly judging attractiveness or not), whereas similar pieces on male DJs/musicians will focus purely on the music on show. female musicians and DJs i'd imagine feel an extraordinary amount of pressure to be taken seriously and not as a mere image. there's a tumblr somewhere dissecting various female artist reviews but i can't find it at the moment...

for those who missed the nina kraviz debacle, here's a little bit more on "bathgate" : http://www.factmag.com/2013/04/11/bathg ... nce-music/

bela wrote:for those who missed the nina kraviz debacle, here's a little bit more on "bathgate" : http://www.factmag.com/2013/04/11/bathg ... nce-music/

Cheers.

bela wrote:say you're hired for a very competitive position -- if a man gets the job, it's assumed that he's got the best credentials and experience, and his physical features don't really come into the picture, attractive or not.
if you're a hot chick, there's a certain sense of paranoia that you've gotten the job just because you're attractive (or that others will think so), and there's added pressure to prove yourself as more than just a pretty face.
if you're a not so hot chick, there's a sense you have to compensate for your lacking 'femininity' that gives your attractive female peers an advantage and, again, go the extra mile to prove yourself.

You skipped a pretty important step; getting the job. If a man and a woman are both equally capable (same age, experience, education, intelligence), she will probably get the job. A man would hire her because he'd like to fuck her, a woman would hire her because girl power. So her gender is her upperhand and what got her the appreciation she needed for the job. And there will be a lot of men and less attractive women that would resent her for it because they're well aware of how attractiveness and gender matters. I don't really care about the resentment, because I'm telling you right here; If I was a hot girl, I would exploit my attractiveness and sex appeal to get my way too. Fuck it, if mother nature gives you a shortcut, you'd be an idiot not to use it.

So what you've posted isn't that women, especially attractive ones, are less appreciated. It's that society is aware of their upperhand.

If you had another job opening and two men applied who were both equally well suited for the job with identical in skills, and one dude was hot and the other was average. The average looking guy would always lose as well. Just to be clear in how much attractiveness matters regardless of gender. Just like if Seth and Nina both walked down the street naked without anyone knowing who they are. More people would assume she's talented, smart and sophicated than Seth. And that Seth is a fat, lazy, ugly, slob. People just have the prejudices over appearance.

bela wrote:same goes in music -- scour a bunch of event reviews and you'll find that in the vast majority of pieces on female musicians/DJs, her appearance is mentioned in some way or form (whether it's blatantly judging attractiveness or not), whereas similar pieces on male DJs/musicians will focus purely on the music on show. female musicians and DJs i'd imagine feel an extraordinary amount of pressure to be taken seriously and not as a mere image. there's a tumblr somewhere dissecting various female artist reviews but i can't find it at the moment...

They do feel pressure, I understand that. But they do feel it because outside of music, they're already more appreciated than men are. These women don't need to do music to be appreciated. If men in dance music didn't do anything, no one woudl care about them.

My argument isn't about women vs men in a particular field or profession. But women vs men in society in general. Women in general are more appreciated than men are, because men lost out when it came to sexual selection. A woman doesn't have to prove her worth as a person by doing art or a demanding job, while a man's entire worth to society is decided by their competence in a particular field. And this difference explains why women are more harshly criticized when they enter fields dominated by men.