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Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:15 pm
by Earjax
Hi guys, so i've done a real thorough mix on this tune of mine, and it turned out great so i've decided i want to get it mastered. Unfortunately there is like 0 headroom in the chorus, and i know this is less than ideal for mastering.
I'm assuming I can't just turn down the mixer fader haha, so what is the best way of going about mixing it down from here. All my tracks are now audio, so would it be best to just tune each one down individually?
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:25 pm
by mromgwtf
Manual limiting. Automate the volume of your mixed track, and drop it down when the chorus comes. Cheap but a great hack.
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:23 pm
by Earjax
mromgwtf wrote:Manual limiting. Automate the volume of your mixed track, and drop it down when the chorus comes. Cheap but a great hack.
I can get away with this?^ O.o
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:37 pm
by AxeD
You can get away with whatever sounds good, as long as you leave at least a few dB of headroom for the mastering.
Technically what the mastering engineer is going to send back to you is called a pre master by the way.
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:20 am
by alphacat
Quoting Tony Maserati here:
Sound on Sound wrote:
These days, it's not only mastering engineers who are complaining about the 'loudness wars'. As a mix engineer, Tony Maserati is suffering fall-out from the same phenomenon. "Something that's become a real problem recently is the maximising thing and the degree of distortion that comes with it. It really pisses me off. I work very hard to get the same impact without the distortion, but I'm finding that I can't do that any more. The ears of my clients are trained for distortion now. It's a really disturbing thing. Some guys just don't give a crap and they are crunching the shit out of rough mixes. It gets in the way of the actual performance, and yet artists often think these crunched, crappy-assed mixes are really hot, and it becomes a problem for me to match them without the distortion. One record I'm working on at the moment is for a great young artist for Motown, with a great producer, but all the rough mixes are maximised way beyond anything I would ever do. And because the artist is young, and because she's only ever listened to MP3, it's tough to help her understand that we don't want distortion before it gets mastered."
So yeah. Try and leave at least 3 db on top.
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:09 am
by mromgwtf
AxeD wrote:You can get away with whatever sounds good, as long as you leave at least a few dB of headroom for the mastering.
Technically what the mastering engineer is going to send back to you is called a pre master by the way.
Pre master? And who's responsible for doing the actual master? Jesus?
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:16 am
by Icetickle
Can you leave too much headroom? I usually mix up to -5dB...
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:18 am
by mromgwtf
Icetickle wrote:Can you leave too much headroom? I usually mix up to -5dB...
Whatever feels right for you/mastering engineer. If you/mastering engineer think(s) -5dB is too little then just boost the volume of your master by 2dB
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:17 pm
by skimpi
I was just told to have it under -6db
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:39 pm
by Earjax
Icetickle wrote:Can you leave too much headroom? I usually mix up to -5dB...
I've known some engineers to ask for -7db of headroom, it just depends on the way they work.
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:34 pm
by Sinergy
On this topic, couldn't you potentially mix at any volume, then adjust the master to what the engineer wants?
Like, mix out at -1 db peak, then drop master 5 or 6 db?
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:57 pm
by mromgwtf
Sinergy wrote:On this topic, couldn't you potentially mix at any volume, then adjust the master to what the engineer wants?
Like, mix out at -1 db peak, then drop master 5 or 6 db?
That's what I do, I always master to -0db, and then drop the master fader.
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:37 pm
by EARTH_MOVER
mromgwtf wrote:Sinergy wrote:On this topic, couldn't you potentially mix at any volume, then adjust the master to what the engineer wants?
Like, mix out at -1 db peak, then drop master 5 or 6 db?
That's what I do, I always master to -0db, and then drop the master fader.
And no problems have come from doing that? i was wondering this same thing the other day..
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:49 pm
by AxeD
mromgwtf wrote:AxeD wrote:You can get away with whatever sounds good, as long as you leave at least a few dB of headroom for the mastering.
Technically what the mastering engineer is going to send back to you is called a pre master by the way.
Pre master? And who's responsible for doing the actual master? Jesus?
Mastering is basically what they do at a pressing plant or when cutting.
The pre master still involves creative choices and processing.
These days most people call all of that mastering though, so it doesn't really matter. Thought it was interesting
to mention anyway
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:27 am
by titchbit
you could either lower the master track by ~6 dB or send everything to a bus and lower that by ~6 db before sending it to the master track.
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:20 am
by mromgwtf
dearadamantium wrote:mromgwtf wrote:Sinergy wrote:On this topic, couldn't you potentially mix at any volume, then adjust the master to what the engineer wants?
Like, mix out at -1 db peak, then drop master 5 or 6 db?
That's what I do, I always master to -0db, and then drop the master fader.
And no problems have come from doing that? i was wondering this same thing the other day..
Yeah the output is always the same. No matter if you begin mixing to -6db, or just lower it after mixing to -0db.
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:49 am
by outbound
mromgwtf wrote:dearadamantium wrote:mromgwtf wrote:Sinergy wrote:On this topic, couldn't you potentially mix at any volume, then adjust the master to what the engineer wants?
Like, mix out at -1 db peak, then drop master 5 or 6 db?
That's what I do, I always master to -0db, and then drop the master fader.
And no problems have come from doing that? i was wondering this same thing the other day..
Yeah the output is always the same. No matter if you begin mixing to -6db, or just lower it after mixing to -0db.
You could mix at any volume and then drop the master buss to give you a lower final output however.......
Even though DAW's usually work in 32bit floating point, you can drive the level's and they won't clip until you reach the master and bounce. This same cannot be said about the plugins or outboard gear you may use. If you don't gain stage appropriately then you can end up clipping these processes which can sound awful. Especially if the level's are hot to begin with you can end up clipping plugin after plugin
So the sensible thing is keep the level's cool to begin with, make sure to level match when you add a process to keep level's consistent and then by the time you get to the master you won't have to touch the fader and you will be confident that you wont' have clipped anything along the way
Re: Headroom on a pre master.
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:10 am
by Icetickle
Mix to anything below 0dB and then leave as much headroom as the ME asks for. Don't mix to 0dB with a limiter on the master, ever.