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Hello,


So I was donated a Xio synth number of years ago however I have only just began using it as a hardware synth rather than just MIDI.

It seems either I've been spoilt by the convenience of VSTi's or using external hardware is kind of clunky...?

My current workflow:

1. Set up FL's MIDI OUT plugin to go to my Xio.
2. Load up patch on Xio, tinker to taste.
3. Run the Xio to a mixer channel
4. Apply effects
5. Add Edison, record, save to a folder then drag back into the playlist.

The issues I have...

The MIDI OUT is great, means I can loop a riff without needing 1 hand to play notes back to myself.
However obviously you can't record automation clips, so you have to record every automated loop manually to insert into your track later.
Also, I have to save the edited preset on the synth and load that up every time I reload the project. If I forget to save a change and then cock it up later, I can't load a previous version - so you have to be pretty sure with what you're doing.

Is this just the way it is? It just seems quite clunky and quite disconnected.

I've learnt Novation made a VST (forget the name right now) that allows you to control the hardware synth on screen, sending the patch data down midi - have I got this correct? Or am I misunderstanding. That would be epic, as it would allow me to draw automation curves for filters etc meaning I can just record the whole synth track at the end before I bounce down the track.

I find it best to record the synth in first then apply any VST effects to the audio later. That way you retain the flexibility and avoid any latency issues.

It's easier to record straight into the playlist rather than through edison, it just leaves it as an audio clip then

Also the whole point with hardware is that you're going back and tweaking every little thing, you record it and capture the imperfections so I don't see why you'd need to keep saving the patch, just record it all in one go and tweak everything live.

I'll have to try recording straight into the playlist, does sound simpler.


So you're saying it's better to record every change? And then record all automation once i'm happy with a sound?

Just can visualize a nightmare where I've made a sound in the early stages of the project which then doesn't work/sounds out of place a week later, then I have to go back and make a whole new sound as I didn't save the patch on the synth or something stupid.

Unfortunately I think I was speaking poo when talking about controlling the hardware synths parameters in real time withing the software and being able to draw automation curves.

You can export V-Station patches to Xio Synth, thus making the patch design process a bit quicker and meaning you have the preset setting in the project folder rather than on the synth, however you're obviously in the softsynth then using the hardware at the final stage which kind of negates it all.

So guess i'm back to learning the complex menus, using midi out from FL to control the riff and doing everything else manually and recording track by track.

Capture pt wrote:I'll have to try recording straight into the playlist, does sound simpler.


So you're saying it's better to record every change? And then record all automation once i'm happy with a sound?

Just can visualize a nightmare where I've made a sound in the early stages of the project which then doesn't work/sounds out of place a week later, then I have to go back and make a whole new sound as I didn't save the patch on the synth or something stupid.

Yeah, usually I record something then build the tune around it and if it doesn't end up working then save it for another track. To be fair my hardware synths are mainly analogue so I don't have to mess about with menus. I can see it being a bit more difficult if you're using something that is menu driven. Depends what your workflow is like as well, I like to work quickly and get the main sounds down then go back and do the finer tweaks.

For instance i'll record a lead or a bass with the filter sweeps etc from the synth, then after i've recorded it go and EQ it and add any other FX I think it needs (barring the ones in my hardware chain).

First I want to state Im a fan of using hardware. But I'm curious why you want to use what appears to be a menu heavy digital synth in the studio. Maybe its not worth the hassle for you? For me its all about dubbing some stems w lots of knob twisting. It sounds like all your complaints is that it doesn't work as easy as a vst. This is where my question for you comes from. What do you want out of a digital hardware synth that you can't get w a vst?

it was given to me for free, so thought i'd give it a go. if it turns out a ballache I'll go back to soft synths im sure.

i like the idea of the hands on approach rather than mouse clicking mainly is what fancies me, along with the unique character a synth might bring to a track.

im sure it's just adjusting to the workflow and learning something new. its easy to spot what you don't like when learning something new, rather than what you do like.

You're half right, and half wrong. Using hardware synths in a daw is a bit of a ball ache. It is even more difficult in flstudio. It is a legitimate criticism.

But you can absolutely record, and transmit back all kinds of knob tweaks. You can send automation to the xio, etc. You can also dump the patch into flstudio as a midi file, I believe, I haven't dumped a hardware patch in a long time. THat way when you come back to your project, you can reload the patch. But that isn't really what hardware, in this day and age is about. Hardware is now largely about immediacy, get it now, twist it now, get it down and move on.

Few synths warrant the effort for the sound alone. It is about your physical experience with the thing. So yeah, record your midi pattern, loop that, set edison to record (I find it easier), set edison to loop, so you get neet little takes, and just loop that fucker for a while, take passes doing knob tweaks. Do twenty takes depending on your loop length. Then listen to each one, choose the ones you like, and drag them out into the play list. Now comp them together. Maybe you like the opening phrase of one, the middle section of another, and the closing of a third, mix them together into one line. Maybe go note by note for each one, or even blending within notes between different takes and modulations.

The patch is done and gone. Forget it. Or remember it. Remember your settings. If you really get in there and design the patch from ground up, and you're in the guts of the patch tweeking it, you probably know what is making the patch the patch.

yeah, seen -

Well - I just figured how to save a patch on the Xio.

The Good: I can come back to my patch (and thus my tune) tomorrow

The Bad: I only have 200 slots of which are currently presets, so I have to save over a preset every time. No biggie as I can initiate the factory presets at a later date but could become a ballache eventually.

You can also dump the patch into flstudio as a midi file, I believe, I haven't dumped a hardware patch in a long time. THat way when you come back to your project, you can reload the patch.

I'm going to have to research this, sounds ideal. Exactly what i'm looking for tbh.

I get what you mean about being able to do it right now, I just spent 30 minutes listening to a loop without a drum beat, twiddling with filters shaking my head and pulling faces.

Capture pt wrote:it was given to me for free, so thought i'd give it a go. if it turns out a ballache I'll go back to soft synths im sure.

i like the idea of the hands on approach rather than mouse clicking mainly is what fancies me, along with the unique character a synth might bring to a track.

im sure it's just adjusting to the workflow and learning something new. its easy to spot what you don't like when learning something new, rather than what you do like.

Ah! I see. Fair enough, man. Good on you for the free synth ;p Go with Nowaysj advice for sure! That's pretty much how I work as well. Dubbing dem stems

my opinion has pretty much flipped in the past 5 hours, got such a good vibe out of it tonight and totally stoked on this new track because of it. figuring how to save a patch to come back to it later was the changer.

still a bit awkward having to record each stem every time and do manual automation at the same time etc etc but i'm sure when i'm used to it it'll be part of the workflow. I mean I can happily make music with a mouse now and when i started that was THE most awkward thing ive ever done.

Interested to see if I can find more about dumping the patch into FL, that'll be dope. And sending automation etc to the xio

I'd honestly be surprised if you could dump the whole patch into FL specifically, but you might be able to dump the preset files to your computer though. Honestly, I just do everything live on the synth except the MIDI Out app for sequencing.

If you can dump something into FL, it'll all be MIDI data that would recall settings on the synth.

Yes, you start flstudio recording midi data and set the synth up to transmit the patch. The patch come over as sysex, and that sysex is stored in the midi file.

Don't forget you can program automation on your computer that is transmitted to the synth. You don't HAVE to play it all by hand, but I think you're seeing that your hands and ears are smarter than your eyes and brain.

Just to warn you, and fragments is a living example of this, if this hardware thing keeps up, you may end up walking the streets doing terrible things for spare change. Hardware can be addictive.

Its true. I suck dick for analog filters...

I'm right there with you sister.

Lol. I'm at least that hot in a denim skirt.

Haha...

Yes, you start flstudio recording midi data and set the synth up to transmit the patch. The patch come over as sysex, and that sysex is stored in the midi file.

Will have to look into this, sounds ideal.

Right now I'm happy with just saving on the synth then pulling the patch off with the Novation library editor. That'll work for now.

Cheers for your help guys, appreciate it.

Capture pt wrote:Haha...

Yes, you start flstudio recording midi data and set the synth up to transmit the patch. The patch come over as sysex, and that sysex is stored in the midi file.

Will have to look into this, sounds ideal.

Right now I'm happy with just saving on the synth then pulling the patch off with the Novation library editor. That'll work for now.

Cheers for your help guys, appreciate it.

I could never be arsed to set all that up. I mean...seriously...if I wanted to click around in my daw I'd just use a softsynth

Yeah, that is technique from the days of yor, before the advent of vst's.