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The 60s, the peace marches, the civil rights demonstrations...200k, 300k, 600k, 1m people, all marching for a common cause to put real pressure on governments to change.


Nowadays we have a few thousand people in masks having a fight with coppers and giving abuse to people on buses for no good reason.


Not saying that it's completely dead in the water, but looking how far we've drifted is worrying. The Occupy movement had a bit of steam behind it and was genuinely looking to be a step in the right direction, but what happened? Washed away in a river of Mace and violence akin to what happened at Oakland.

Ordinarily, the finger could be pointed at mainstream media pandering to the whims of the powerful, but in the Internet age is this still an exucse? A webcam and Internet connection is all you need to make your point felt, and with social media the way it is the message can travel far & wide.

Activism, real activism, seems really fucking lackluster recently, and is being highjacked under the guise of 'anarchy' and 'us against them' without a clear manifesto of where to go. Everything is blogged and Liked and Tweeted and Shared and then what? Does it cause the masses to rise up, or provide a few moments of 'LOL' as throwaway sensationalist material more geared to entertain than inspire.

Is there anywhere to go from this? Not suggesting a grass roots campaign isn't the best/worst way forward, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot going on otherwise.

I have so much to say on this but am not educated well enough to articulate my point coherently so i'm just going to wait for (certain) other people to say what I want to be said and hit them up with a re-quote, an and maybe even a bigup.

That being said, I can offer a few GCSE level insights as to the differences between then and now -

The people demonstrating then were mainly baby-boomers and so maybe there was a greater sense of cohesion due to the fact it was the old way of thinking vs the new.
Now it's all sorts of people arguing about smaller issues that directly affect them rather that one particular goal.

Back then, if you'd read a few books and spoke with enough conviction you could convince people that what you were shouting about was worth shouting about.
Now, anyone with internet connection can call you out on any discrepancies in you're spiel and call you a tnuc from half a world away. Also, a lot of the time, research contradicting your own can be found on most subjects (often financed by the people opposing research would discredit).

Back then you could move from job to job without a care in the world and also had more free time to do your own research and look into things.
Now it's sixty hour weeks and drastically reduced job security.

Just a few points..

Capitalism won effectively (Well the worst form of it), people have to much stuff to keep them pre-occupied. March on a Saturday or watch the footie and get home for X-factor. Plus there is that whole, 'I'm Alright Jack, it's not at my front door yet' attitude.
The working classes are starting to restless as our standards in living drop though, as are the lower-middle-classes who generally are more politically minded, just needs a tipping point.

Laszlo wrote:I have so much to say on this but am not educated well enough to articulate my point coherently so i'm just going to wait for (certain) other people to say what I want to be said and hit them up with a re-quote, an and maybe even a bigup.

Is this not a perfect example of just the kind of attitude I was getting at?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-24286582

It's not that bad.

Pedro Sánchez wrote:The working classes are starting to restless as our standards in living drop though, as are the lower-middle-classes who generally are more politically minded, just needs a tipping point.

But what then...will the masses instantly take to the streets?

Dub_freak wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-24286582

It's not that bad.

Health care will always be exempt though, to a certain extent.

Dub_freak wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-24286582

It's not that bad.

I was at that, the mood was rather dampened by the fact the police was sealed off half the city and their were dicks with megaphones instructing people to not get angry or use abusive language, it felt more like a high school trip than a march.

wub wrote:

Pedro Sánchez wrote:The working classes are starting to restless as our standards in living drop though, as are the lower-middle-classes who generally are more politically minded, just needs a tipping point.

But what then...will the masses instantly take to the streets?

It will need to have an angry spark I'm afraid, like the riots but instead of kids stealing trainers, grown men stomping on those that try and protect institutions, the ones that are causing all this need to understand proper fear, a fear that the majority cannot be controlled, that will not come about peacefully, history has shown that.

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

wub wrote:

Pedro Sánchez wrote:The working classes are starting to restless as our standards in living drop though, as are the lower-middle-classes who generally are more politically minded, just needs a tipping point.

But what then...will the masses instantly take to the streets?

It will need to have an angry spark I'm afraid, like the riots but instead of kids stealing trainers, grown men stomping on those that try and protect institutions, the ones that are causing all this need to understand proper fear, a fear that the majority cannot be controlled, that will not come about peacefully, history has shown that.

But the November 5th protests were that, to an extent. And they were just highjacked by people looking for a ruck, without having any thought behind it as to what they were getting aggy about, other than "us against them".

In my pessimistic opinion, the people that squeeze us know exactly how hard to squeeze without us running through their fingers. There will be no tipping point as long as bread and circuses are in abundance.

wub wrote:

Pedro Sánchez wrote:

wub wrote:

Pedro Sánchez wrote:The working classes are starting to restless as our standards in living drop though, as are the lower-middle-classes who generally are more politically minded, just needs a tipping point.

But what then...will the masses instantly take to the streets?

It will need to have an angry spark I'm afraid, like the riots but instead of kids stealing trainers, grown men stomping on those that try and protect institutions, the ones that are causing all this need to understand proper fear, a fear that the majority cannot be controlled, that will not come about peacefully, history has shown that.

But the November 5th protests were that, to an extent. And they were just highjacked by people looking for a ruck, without having any thought behind it as to what they were getting aggy about, other than "us against them".

I agree plusI am reluctant to get involved in a demo organised by a bunch of trust fund rebels, going through a phase to piss off daddy, then tweeting about it on their new iPhone.

It's an almost hipster attitude to demonstration, the idea of being part of something and making sure people know that you were there even if you had no clue what was going on.

I think for the time being, it's better. The only thing protestors would be asking for is more of the same.

The world isn't quite ready for change

Back to my GCSE level comparisons -

Then, you were largely anonymous and could protest with only the fear of a beating from a bobby's truncheon.
Now you have police with cameras, facial recognition technology, watch lists, mace, tasers, the terrorism act, etc.

Laszlo wrote:Back to my GCSE level comparisons -

Then, you were largely anonymous and could protest with only the fear of a beating from a bobby's truncheon.
Now you have police with cameras, facial recognition technology, watch lists, mace, tasers, the terrorism act, etc.

...and nearly everyone is Anonymous.

wub wrote:

Laszlo wrote:Back to my GCSE level comparisons -

Then, you were largely anonymous and could protest with only the fear of a beating from a bobby's truncheon.
Now you have police with cameras, facial recognition technology, watch lists, mace, tasers, the terrorism act, etc.

...and nearly everyone has a mask produced by a big corporation.

I wanted to be completely ignorant of politics as a kid until I had no choice and through circumstances had go against it. Now in my peer group, I'm usually the person people contact when they wanna know where they stand in terms of rights and laws because I took the time to research where people were getting shafted and how they could sort it.

At a local level is where people should be encouraged to start, boycotting businesses, protesting over closure of public services, trolling the fuck out of local MPs and making them earn their pay but when you are struggling to make ends meet and working all hours or you are getting fucked over by the DWP for being unemployed, the motivation is in short supply.

can't speak for other countries, but, at least here, i find protesting completely useless. and not just because the people in power, but because of the people who go out and protest. i've witnessed protests for everything and nothing for two years now. and it's always the same thing; incredible hype for a few days, maybe weeks, then everybody forgets about it and moves on to the next thing.
i'm not saying people don't have legitimate reasons to do it (though some of them are really fucking dumb), but you're not going to change anything by shouting for a few hours and then going to the pub and pat each other on the back.

most recent shitstorm was/is about the exploitation of some remote region's gold (and other metal resources) - that no local company is willing or capable of doing anymore. nobody gave a fuck about this for 7 years, now all of the sudden it's the hip thing and if you don't support this cause you're either ignorant or are paid/working for the "bad guys" (aka the said company + politicians that made it happen).
people were also freaking out that nothing was mentioned in local media. well no shit sherlock. dudes who own newspapers and tv stations are major funders of the parties you're protesting against. noone is gonna risk their jobs to write about some angry college kids, all in the name of free press, speech or whatever principle.
not to mention the underlying nationalistic tendencies in a lot of these people's speech (omg foreigners are taking our gold, foreigners will poison us etc) and the people gathered and instigated by (ex)fascist priests... oh or the fact that these so politically conscious masses were almost militantly ignorant of blatant attacks on the judicial system (like prosecuters involved in major cases getting fired cause x politican said so) - but apparently that's not a big issue. fair enough, you don't care about the issue, but don't come shouting from your high horse that those who don't support your cause are ignorant.

i don't have anything against activism, it's your thing w/e, i don't care. i do have a problem with using activism as a means to look down on others and feel better about yourself - this is pretty much why i can't take activists seriously and why i think protests ultimately fail

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/lo ... ts-6340576

The problem with political activism, at the University of Birmingham at least, is that the people involved are self righteous up themselves complete and utter wankers.

m8son wrote:complete and utter wankers.

speaking of which...
i remember going to a debate at some lame attempt to occupy an university. left after 30 mins cause people were like "WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING HERE TOO" and then started bitching about how unfair is that they have to pay for their 2nd masters - mind you that here we have state paid college (think you can actually go to college twice for free, just not at the same time), masters and phds