Dubstepforum.com

Ever get this?
I'm working on a track I think is a winner then due to spending too much time on it I end up hating it. I was full on ready to scrap a good track I put so much time into. The only reason I didn't is because I had a week long break from it.

How can I stop this other than putting less time into it. I also don't want to take a week long break every time this happens. There is always so much to do and such little time. I already take regular brakes in the days I spend at my DAW.

take a break from it.. forget it.. work on somthing else
and listen to it after awhile and see what u feel bout it

Despite popular belief about the all in one super producer...I think very few succesful musicians actually do everything on their own. So maybe dont be so hard on yourself?

I recently decided I am going to stop worrying about being an amazing audio engineer and am going to try and be a song writer. If/when the "breaktthrough" tunes appear in front of me, I will worry a but getting them to sound top notch. These days I feel like there is a whole new crop of producers (myself included) that get way too hung up on technical side of stuff and dont stop to ask themselves if they have even made something worth the effort or mixing down (polishing turds etc).

If people want to pursue being an expert at all the things thats cool, but for me...Id rather be a song writer or at least the dude arranging some interesting noises in an intellegent matter. If I get to the point where enough people care about what I do to make it worth really knuckling down on the tech side or paying someone else to do it...I will cross that bridge.

x

I definitely agree with @Still Young. Take a break from that song and work on other projects. Forget about it for a long time. Come back to it when you "rediscover" it and you'll feel a lot better at it.

When I've finished a good track, my standards of what is good and what can be better are therefore raised, so I'm constantly breaking new ground and striving for improvement.

BB - just got there last night. Methodically working on a track all week, and it just turned to shit last night. I stripped back an 8 bar section of the song to kick and snare and bass, and started working it back up. Was 10x better than the song I was working on... so now I've got a shit song with one 8 bar section that if pushed, could be good.

It's a disaster bb. To Frag and to you - I think the technical production side, you should be able to get 80% of the way there in like 1 minute per sound. It isn't rocket science to low cut a sound and drop a compressor on it. Just wammo blammo. If you are writing a song that is like PURELY music, like it is just a series of notes, any kind of production is not important in the writing phase, but if the sound of your sounds has anything to do with the song, and that is like 90% of it nowadays, we have so much control over sounds, it is the way notes move into each other, the blending of textures, the management of transients, all of that is sound related stuff, SO - just take a second to eq, and compress your sound to sit it into the space of the track. You have to know what kind of weight a sound is going to have, how much it is going to push the beat, how much attention it will grab, how much headroom it will eat. If you do that kind of mixing as you go, its not just that you'll have your song close to where it needs to be at the end, you can't really be making good decisions along the way if you don't know what kind of presence the sounds are going to have in your song.

To BB - Really analyze what is going on.

1. Is the track actually good initially, and it is subsequently destroyed by overworking.
or
2. Is the track shit initially, and it takes you a week to get past your emotional response tied to your ego to realize the track is shit?

If 1, learn to work faster, get more work done initially. Get 90% done in that first inspired session. AND/OR - learn the skill of working further on a track. So yeah, we destroy tracks as we work on them. Look back at your track, and analyze where did you go wrong, what started to happen that ruined the track? IF you can find where you went wrong, remember where you were emotionally/mentally at the time you started making those bad decisions and be on guard for that next time you're working on a song. It is kind of like recognizing the sign posts, like, "Hey I know where I am, I'm at the intersection of Dope Track and Shit Decisions, I'm not going to turn down Shit Decisions Avenue again."

OR

If 2, have to work on your objectivity. Ego is essential, but just a bit too much, and it is all about you. Like when the track starts to sound really good - you think you're really good, and when it turns to shit, you're shit. If you're making decisions to secure your ego, you're almost bound to make bad decisions. Try to find ways to be secure in yourself, and your music making ability. Really try to see (or hear!) through your feelings about what you are working on, to get to what is actually there.

ONE of the best ways to do that is to use reference tracks. As soon as the track takes shape enough to be within a genre (or if you are specifically working within a genre) use a few reference tracks that are stylistically similar to your track, and A/B what you are working on with the pro produced track. And really listen. Are your sounds as rich? Are they as inventive? Are they as unique? Do they fit within each other? Do your transitions feel natural and effortless? Are your lines catchy and distinctive enough? Is your space as deep and wide? And on and on - there are so many factors. Bottom line, really compare your track to the reference tracks. You're not trying to sound like the reference tracks, but you should be checking the level of thought, the level of investment, and the actual execution. I find this to be extremely helpful with every stage, from writing, to mixing to mastering. Reference tracks will just slice through your ego.

Let's say you've got 16 bars that you think are pretty good, kick sounds good, it moves good with the bass, snare is an interesting sound, hats really move the track, the mix space is fairly evolved, and you listen to your reference track. Your kick is too fat, the bass is static and does not move, your hats plod, and you've got way too much down the middle... haha. It happens. But use those references as educational materials to make adjustments to what you are doing.

If the kick is too fat, compress the tail a bit, or low cut it (make sure you're not picking up a few extra db when you low cut - destroys headroom).

If the bass is too static, clone your bass synth and make adjustments to the patch, and pull a few notes out of the previous bline and drop them into your new bass synth, bust out a few more lanes (or clips!) of automation on the bass, less smooth movements, and more sudden changes to the bass character, or the opposite.

Hats - start looking at your velocities/volume, start pushing them to make them move with the rhythm, make them bounce. Make little micro moves (learn how shuffle works, and how to do it manually) so shuffle your hats a bit, try the shuffle in different places, like the two and and the four and. Also try out setting up a side chain buss fed by your kick and snare, or your one kick and your three snare, or your one and three kick and two and four snare, or your main kick and main snare (leave off incidentals!) and side chain your hats by this buss, but just a bit. See if you can set up a knob for the threshold (or the sidechain input amount) and loop your track, and just turn that knob not until you hear it but until it just feels better, until there is a little more nod in your head. You're not trying to gain headroom, just trying to increase the bounce and flow.

If your track isn't wide enough, pan some mono elements off to the sides, and don't think you've got to go all the way hard left and right, you can keep things central and focused with just some movement left and right. Maybe you want to automate some panning, or use an autopanning vst (pancake look it up). Or Chorus one or two elements (or areas of a sound, lick chorusing the highs of you bass, or you lead synth).

Point is to really recognize where your deficiencies are and to address them, EARLY before you go too deep into the track and everything is interdependent and monolithic.

AND

really all this, there is way more than this, too much to write, but it all comes with experience. Just bottom line. So just KEEP WORKING. It is cliche but the word is you've got to do something 10,000 times before your an expert, so what are you up to? 30, 40? Long way to go!!!

AND

Recognizing and addressing problems, like you are with this thread and this track that you are working on, is the way to do it. Recognize when you are sucking, and address it. Confront it. Push it. Sweat it out. You know, once you see a problem, and try to start correcting a problem, doesn't mean it will be then fixed, but you'll be down the road to fixing it.

Best of luck, feel free to join us down in the TUNA! thread, a track a week, only 192 years until we knock out our 10k songs! A lot of sweaty bros down there, just cranking out the tunes. Good ears down there too. I'm making major strides working my ass off down there.

And apologies for typos, spelling, and grammer errors, typed over a frenetic breakfast.

bassbum wrote:Ever get this?
I'm working on a track I think is a winner then due to spending too much time on it I end up hating it. I was full on ready to scrap a good track I put so much time into. The only reason I didn't is because I had a week long break from it.

How can I stop this other than putting less time into it. I also don't want to take a week long break every time this happens. There is always so much to do and such little time. I already take regular brakes in the days I spend at my DAW.

I've definitely had this problem.

Disregard this if you like it probably doesn't work for everyone but I've found (having taken a break from the track for a bit, listen to as much different stuff as you can) try and take 1 objective listen through and note down everything you need to do to it. Don't sit with parts on loop for hours and hours, just do what you think needs correcting. Minimise the time you spend just listening to little sections. Listen to it as whole when you need to, or when it may actually be finished.

I think it puts some perspective on what is important to tweak and what isn't when you listen as a whole. Same concept when you start treating a bunch of songs as an album/EP it becomes a bit clearer what matters and what doesn't.

nowaysj just wow.

Yeah the track musically was finished and I was just trying to get the production up to a level I found acceptable. There was nothing wrong with the track at all. I started to hate it because I had spent the better part of 2 days listening to it go round and round.

I dont know, I guess the only option when it happens is to just take a break.

Yeah, well if that is it. Pick a track you really like, and listen to it on loop for 8 hours a day, for a couple of days. Report back if you still like it!

Like the the rapist said up there, don't listen to your track too much, you brain like memorizes the track, and then stops hearing it.

I am a major loop monger, but I'm finally getting to the point where I'll stop my seq if I'm going to do something, like pull up some fx or move some clips in the arrangement. I'll stop everything. Like I'm always looking for a way to stop the seq now, so it is not just loooping and looping. Anyway, post up the track dude, let's hear it.

I will when they vocals are done. It will end up in my sig anyway. My vocalist is coming over tomorrow to finish writing them so they should be recorded by the end of the week.

nowaysj: yep, I agree 80% of it is pretty simple. I guess what I am getting at is not getting caught up in the last 20% as that is less important IMHO than writing a good tune. Its really hard for me not to get caught up in that

Yeah, seriously, fuck that 20%. That is for being released on a majal labor, and someone getting 20k to mix your track.

nowaysj wrote:Yeah, seriously, fuck that 20%. That is for being released on a majal labor, and someone getting 20k to mix your track.

I'd rather spend the 20k on gear. ALL THE ANALOG SYNTHS

Just fucking finishing it, is an achievement in it's own right.. so many bangers that will never see the light of day.. shame!
No breaks.. just finish it!

Oh man. So relatable. I think one way around this is to finish the creative part as quickly as possible (composition and arrangement)

After that, one thing i've been meaning to try would be to save the current mixdown, then start the mix from scratch again, making a 2nd or 3rd version of the mix. I would imagine this would keep the song sounding fresh during the mixing stage.

I like that idea. Just save your working mix, new version of the song, and bring all faders down to minus infinity. I really need to try that sometime. If I ever do have a real, completely discreet mix session!

nowaysj wrote: It is cliche but the word is you've got to do something 10,000 times before your an expert, so what are you up to?

10,000 _hours_ is Malcolm Gladwell's oft-quoted number. Though the advice to "KEEP WORKING" still stands, always.

it is often nice to completely fade everything down on your mixer and re do the levels. sometimes you get a better perspective on where the songs going. for example you might push your synths back a bit and find that is sounds good and allows room for more percs or something. I never finish anything though so thanks for all the posts guise. i can have a good read when i get home.