On well-being & mental health

[nousd]

imo

having personal insight
doesn't preclude us from mania, depression, compulsion etc.
Some of the most insightful people I've known were otherwise insane.

What's more crucial for mental health than insight
is having a means of accessing the world of others,
to gain a perspective on one's emotional responses

The myriad mind games
are best seen as amusing distractions
from real pleasure, pain & connections.

[hubb]

Having had a bit of a go with dementia second hand a couple of times recently, has convinced me the way we divide all these mental deceases into seperate categories is wrong.. a lot of them are parts of the same thing. Like stress can lead to depression and depression can express it self like either of these weightier conditions - like scizofrenia or mania without manifesting itself as such completely.
The same goes for a mind that is going/ or physically when the brain is deteriorating.

Deciding to define a lot of these experiences people have with their brains, as mental decease is for the sake of the rest of us much more than for the involved.
It's much closer to psychology than a direct science as such and that is super wrong in a social sence because we put the weight of science and medicine behind the notion with the same kind of authority we give to hospitals with surgery or similar.

[hubb]

Don't read this unless you are interested in stuff like this.

[+] Spoiler

I had to sort of force convince my family to talk to the doctor and get my grand dads skull drilled after suffering from what must have been a brain aneurism, but was treated like dementia/ or I think just like the idea of a deteriorating brain.
They don't even do an xray or something usually, which is insane insane.
They ended up doing something similar on a wim and got some of the blood out that would have run into areas of his brain where the brain wouldn't have been able to deal with it.

Both the doctors and my aunt who is a top psychiatrist (?) was certain they could ascertain his behaviour as being just depression or dementia and would've just let it slosh around in there. An individual can have a few strokes without even realizing it, which I knew because it had just happened to my grand mother on the other side of the family.

This is one of the more positive stories in this field, which says a lot

[nousd]

^Having had a bit of a go with dementia second hand a couple of times recently, has convinced me the way we divide all these mental deceases into seperate categories is wrong.. a lot of them are parts of the same thing.

yeah, know what you mean...categorizing is certainly not always accurate nor helpful for the person being afflicted by a unique combination of misadaptions

as for well-being,
for a long time, I haven't been in such a healthy scene as what I experienced last weekend
at a little town bush dance
maybe 300 locals, or former locals, having a great time,
without being inebriated, god-bothered nor self-conscious,
infants, teens, twenties, adults, old & ancient together
gaily (sic) dancing to old bush tunes in simple routines
and, in between jigs, the little kiddies out on the floor cavorting or dancing with their folks

I sat watching & noted others with the same dopey smile I was probably wearing.

But such wholesomeness is rare now days.

It's World Mental Health Day on Friday.
Our ABC is showing a doco over 3 consecutive nights about a Sydney public hospital mental health unit,
where patients are involuntarily, but temporarily, being held.
Very sad and eye-opening.
My niece was the producer.
It's ambiguously called "Changing Minds"...
presumably about changing the minds of those who dismiss psychologically-challenged people as weak.

Shit, some of the strongest people I've known were perpetually wrestling with gigantic demons.

[nousd]

^^just read the spoiler

how many times have people been treated as retards, mentally defective, demented or whatever
when they actually had underlying physical problems
like thyroid malfunction, allergies, tumours, dietary intolerance etc etc ?

[nowaysj]

as for well-being,
for a long time, I haven't been in such a healthy scene as what I experienced last weekend
at a little town bush dance
maybe 300 locals, or former locals, having a great time,
without being inebriated, god-bothered nor self-conscious,
infants, teens, twenties, adults, old & ancient together
gaily (sic) dancing to old bush tunes in simple routines
and, in between jigs, the little kiddies out on the floor cavorting or dancing with their folks

I sat watching & noted others with the same dopey smile I was probably wearing.

But such wholesomeness is rare now days.

It is crushing living in this world, knowing what goodness is, what it could be.

[nousd]

Do you think it could be about giving over some of our precious self-determination & privacy
to participate more in community-building activities?
Nothing like working together for mutual benefit to help yourself feel worthwhile and respected.

case in point:
whilst this forum has at times been primarily an outlet for ego-tripping, trolling, flaming and pushing opinions,
anybody that lasts on here seems to eventually appreciate it's communal aspect.
more than a few past & present (genuine) ninjas with apparent psycho-emotional problems, both ephemeral & long term
have been shown a collective tolerance and allowance
because we seem to appreciate how important it is to belong to something that accepts us.

[nowaysj]

You used a lot of purdy words, but I'm pretty sure you just called me crazy. Fucker.

But I don't get you, fully, is that a false dilemma? Do we have to give up self determination to build community? Isn't snh a community of strong individuals (loose time frame). Or isn't it better when populated by distinct, integral, strong individuals who recognized the value of community? A place where acceptance of self is easily followed by acceptance of others? Where people can be as they are as long as they do no harm to others? I don't know, it isn't that hard.

I'm not bringing my A game, or even my C game. Maybe I'll catch you in the morning.

[nousd]

well, seems to me ya gotta give up something to build community
even if it's just wanking time
or the energy it takes to attend & contribute.
not saying you have to subjugate yourself
but there is an effort entailed in getting to know people you will get to like & tolerating people you don't

frinstance, yu & I spend a bit of our precious time tolerating each other's craziness
(yup, I just called yu crazy pard)
but then being called crazy by somebody who's crazy ain't necessarily a bad thing.

[hubb]

nice

[Dystinkt]

Is a sense of acceptance and belonging to a group vital to well being and mental health? This raises the introvert vs extrovert question in my mind. Not everyone needs to feel that they belong or are accepted somewhere to feel emotionally validated, some people really do feel better off with their own company.

[Jizz]

i'd agree that a sense of acceptance is fundamental to well-being because i can only imagine someone who feels they have no friends to be hopelessly paranoid

i dont think there is a single answer for what qualifies as this sense of acceptance. but still, its crazy how theres a growing exclusivity around everything, makes it increasingly urgent for us to want to be accepted into something... even though we might not have stopped to think about what we're being accepted into.

[Dystinkt]

i'd agree that a sense of acceptance is fundamental to well-being because i can only imagine someone who feels they have no friends to be hopelessly paranoid

i dont think there is a single answer for what qualifies as this sense of acceptance. but still, its crazy how theres a growing exclusivity around everything, makes it increasingly urgent for us to want to be accepted into something... even though we might not have stopped to think about what we're being accepted into.

A good example of people who don't need acceptance for their well being would be people who are clinically defined as phsycopaths. They feel literally no empathy for anyone and quite a few of them lead quite happy and successful lives. There was a really good interview on VICE somewhere where a guy who's a certified phsycopath is actually really happy and such without feeling the need for other human's approval, in fact it actively makes him happy to fuck with people's heads.

Yeah, I agree with you on that score. People seem more and more eager to feel that they belong to something somewhere, without realising the implications.

[hubb]

some people really do feel better off with their own company.

It's not about feeling though it's about being. I realize how tshirt that sounded but it's the truth, civilisation shouldn't respect a feeling like that.

[hubb]

I wouldn't say belong either because it has connotations going in another direction.
It's not even acceptance either but simply 'being' in the sence of just being and it has to happen un-obstructed. That's a necessity (I believe as much anyway - who knows?).

[Jizz]

we've got to a point where the only time the idea of "being" is used in conversation is when its in conjunction with something else, like being acceptable or being safe

if instead, you say "being just in the sense of simply being" in a conversation, chances are that you will be completely misunderstood, because people will start asking you to explain yourself

[NickUndercover]

we've got to a point where the only time the idea of "being" is used in conversation is when its in conjunction with something else, like being acceptable or being safe

if instead, you say "being just in the sense of simply being" in a conversation, chances are that you will be completely misunderstood, because people will start asking you to explain yourself

I often tell myself that "depth of thought" (for lack of a better expression) is probably one of the most underestimated traits that everyone has. Everyone in the subway is probably asking themselves the same questions as you are. No one is exempt of the human condition.

Well-being (or lack thereof) is one of those things that encompasses psychology and metaphysics. When I'm feeling melancholy or euphoria I can never tell whether it's a chemical reaction in my brain or the result of a philosophical effort, what Sartre called nausea. I always found this very interesting, where's the limit between the physical, the mental, the spiritual ? It really is a grey area in the end

[nowaysj]

i dont think there is a single answer for what qualifies as this sense of acceptance. but still, its crazy how theres a growing exclusivity around everything, makes it increasingly urgent for us to want to be accepted into something... even though we might not have stopped to think about what we're being accepted into.

Let me make sure I understand you, can you give an, or a few, examples of this?

[NickUndercover]

Yeah I don't really understand your use of "exclusivity"

[Jizz]

exclusivity is an all-important term because it is the basis of individuality, which in turn is the basis of paranoia/the feeling that you cannot be as you are. it is when someone detaches themselves to the point where all they really have left is their own exclusive identity, that they look around and realize that they are quite alone now; this is when well-being is severely affected

take a person who does the opposite. they believe they have free will because they live in a democracy. they follow trends that their friends do. they live life with the belief that they are socially accepted, because they don't do anything that might be seen badly. when such a person is put under a spotlight, the first thing they would do would be to operate within this exclusivity they have created for themselves: that is, the person would want to agree with the rest of the audience who can see the spotlight. they would much rather do that than say, ask the director why they are the one who happens to be under the spotlight, because such a question simply does not seem relevant. so even though they could avoid this whole situation simply by walking out the spotlight, they dont; theyre on the internet and people are watching, so they'd rather stand there and say something safe.

im not sure if im making any sense sorry