Dubstepforum.com

Simultaneous Digital and Vinyl releases from this day forward. I'm looking at Nick Argon in particular, for his releasing all these badass tunes and me having to wait over a week for them to arrive--but all label owners are guilty.

I buy digital copies of the vinyl I buy, because it saves me the time required to rip a decent copy for Ableton. You label owners won't be losing out on my record sale, you'll actually be gaining the digital sale sooner than you would have...

For instance, I purchase the West Coast Rocks remixes on Argon... it's my only purchase, but I still have to pay the rediculous shipping from the UK, wait for over a week, and still wait another week for a Digital copy that isn't some bullshit ripping group issue, unless I want to rip it myself. I still have to wait for that week, whereas the UK kru can simply hop a train to the local shop and pick it up, no shipping.

They beat me on the shipping, they beat me by at least a week trying to compete in the same industry playing these tunes... basically, American's who play digital are being royally fucked by at least a week, and if they don't buy vinyl at all, it's 2 weeks for Argon, longer for most labels.



Anyone else who would like to chime in here and help me out, it would be much appreciated. Now I've lobbied Nick personally, and label owners in general. Anyone who buys digital can now commence begging.

Grovel fools, grovel.

What is it exactly that you want.
(I'm a bit slow after last night!)

Respect the lables desire to keep the wait there, or there decision not to release digital tunes.

Actually, not this again....

i think label owners are perfectly capable of making their own decisions without lobbying. there are reasons for why things are released the way they are after all.

boomnoise wrote:i think label owners are perfectly capable of making their own decisions without lobbying. there are reasons for why things are released the way they are after all.

This is a business. I'm a customer. Think about the relationship between the two and consider for a second what you're saying.

The producer should do whatever they want and the customer should either offer no input or expect no results from that input... how long will you stay in business?

Again, this is just an appeal for support from those who also buy digital. I've heard grumblings from a few people about this. I have the utmost respect for those putting out the music I'm playing and listening to. I would hope the fact that I also buy the vinyl, when I usually play CD's, Serato or Ableton--having no use for vinyl, would demonstrate that respect.

As a fan, I'm simply making that appeal--which is what people who try and be responsible for their own destiny do from time to time

boomnoise wrote:i think label owners are perfectly capable of making their own decisions without lobbying. there are reasons for why things are released the way they are after all.

Business, eh.

That's why people run dubstep labels. For the money and to satisfy the whims of people, i mean customers, like you. Right!

I just don't think this appeal is warranted. It's not as if label owners don't know the score. If they're not releasing digitally simultaneously it is for a good reason, or they are making plans to do so.

It's up to them how to distribute the music they sign.

If people start thinking in your terms as being a customer, this feeling of being owed something, then this music could enter a very bad place.

You should be grateful people are willing to plough their hard earned cash into releasing dubstep at all.

Music first. Everything else after.

As for that destiny bullshit. Excuse me whilst i retch.

most businesses (including record labels) run in the red for a while and the initial investment will almost certainly not be retrieved for a fair long while

lets not pretend these label owners don't know about their customers!
fact is in order to start a label you will probably have more than your average music-loving experience involving the purchase of music (in whatever format) over a significant period of time

they've been customers so they know how some people will feel about restricted releases and delayed digital releases etc but as a fan and customer of a niche market you should be able to appreciate the business sense behind such strategies, and basically like it or lump it

boomnoise wrote:Business, eh.

That's why people run dubstep labels. For the money and to satisfy the whims of people, i mean customers, like you. Right!

I just don't think this appeal is warranted. It's not as if label owners don't know the score. If they're not releasing digitally simultaneously it is for a good reason, or they are making plans to do so.

It's up to them how to distribute the music they sign.

If people start thinking in your terms as being a customer, this feeling of being owed something, then this music could enter a very bad place.

You should be grateful people are willing to plough their hard earned cash into releasing dubstep at all.

Music first. Everything else after.

As for that destiny bullshit. Excuse me whilst i retch.

Big up boomnoise spot on.

Its fair to say most of the people i've met in scene are in it for the love of the music. Doubt you can make much money out of dubstep without losing a lot of the quality & vibe.

At a guess i'm thinkin labels dont release mp3/digital at the same time as vinyl because primarily they want to sell as much vinyl as poss. coz it costs so much to put out.

If you want to lobby someone lobby your local record stores to start stockin dubstep. Then maybe you'll get your hands on the wax a bit quicker.

[edit] this is not at Daggus, just saw your post. I do lobby for it... but the shops here would get it about the same time as I would be getting it. And then I'd pay even more, etc... I'm already buying the vinyl and getting it as soon as anyone else on the stateside--that's not the issue. The issue is that I'm not getting the digital audio at the time I'd like it. I figured I could at least ask why, and if that could change. No harm in asking, right?[/edit]


What I'm hearing hear is a bunch of bullshit, and here is why... you're telling me that as a customer, I shouldn't voice my opinion. I should just shut up and take what I am getting, meanwhile I have a real complaint which others share.

I don't expect the labels to bend to my whim. I do, however, expect them to hear feedback on the service that they render. I do that by reviewing and playing tunes, as well as reviewing and critiquing other aspects of their service. Or by NOT playing tunes.

They have the right to do what they are doing. Just like I have the right to do what I am doing, which is making a request. You don't have to agree or disagree, in fact, you could just ignore this entire post if it doesn't pertain to you.

I'm a customer, not a consumer. A consumer has no choice in the matter. I clearly have a choice here... to use or not use a product. I'm not going to take business elsewhere in the case of Argon. In fact, I understand his reasons for doing what he's doing. That doesn't mean I can't drum up support for my cause. I know that there are at least a few people who feel the way I do. No reason that because we are few, our voices shouldn't be heard, eh?

You're totally entitled to voice your opinion mate!
And perhaps from the label's point of view and from a monetary point of view it would be advised to release all formats at the same time. But then if I was a label owner I would be tempted to delay the digital release so as to not affect vinyl sales. I'm not necessarily sure it would affect vinyl sales, but it's a risk i would imagine some labels wouldn't want to take.
I'm sure it won't be long before multi-format releases on the same day are more commonplace.

From my point of view, I'd rather see a pirated vinyl rip than high quality digital files early on. That's why I don't release digital at the same time any more.. who wants to buy the digital if they can get it for free? (or the vinyl even). Don't blame the labels, blame the so called "customers" who share it for free.. I understand your frustration though.. Feeling the same thing from time to time.

dermike wrote:From my point of view, I'd rather see a pirated vinyl rip than high quality digital files early on. That's why I don't release digital at the same time any more.. who wants to buy the digital if they can get it for free? (or the vinyl even). Don't blame the labels, blame the so called "customers" who share it for free.. I understand your frustration though.. Feeling the same thing from time to time.

I've gone the pirated vinyl rip route a few too many times. It always leaves me feeling dirty like the time the priest touched my.. err... I don't like it. I buy the digital if I can get it for free. I could get it for free and I usually buy the vinyl and the digital. I want to support labels that are putting out vinyl, and frankly, I'm a collector--so I'd never stop buying it.(However, there is going to be a SHORTAGE of vinyl in the coming years, so labels need to change their plan anyway)

Basically I'm whining here. It'll pass after I smoke this spliff.

NoMoreComaStep wrote:
I'm a customer, not a consumer.

You are both and each in the same.

"Consumers refers to individuals or households that purchase and use goods and services generated within the economy." (wikipedia, 2007)

Consumer Power is a strong thing, and i would hate to live in a world which won't allow any opinions to be expressed.

But, this topic has been posted in many forms before and the reasons and opinions offerd and reflected on, and in the end, its a small genre of music with a small fan base where lables know the customer/consumer very well.

Come with me on the next fair trade rally if you wish to put your political and ethical head on

tut tut shouldn't be referencing wikipedia...its really frowned upon cos its not peer reviewed

i can understand your appeal, that you wan't to shake some label owners a bit to have them realize how they could make a few more music customers.

i'm not a fan of digital downloads, i'm still straight into vinyl, but as a producer i can say, that the most money i've made so far (which of course hasn't been very much) was off digital downloads via beatport and itunes etc.

it is really VERY easy to release music digitally today, there are basically no costs, you get way more percentage.

again, i'm a vinyl fan, but legal digital downloading is the future, no doubt.

i know a lot of people around the world that can't buy the vinyl because they don't have good stores or mail orders, or postage is just way high. so a lot of people (e.g. south america) get the tunes digitally (legally) and are very happy about it. if the tunes weren't offered digitally they wouldn't have the good new fresh stuff to play and would have to wait maybe half a year to get a copy of the vinyl...

bootlegging/vinyl rips: well, there will always be the illegal side of the music biz but numbers are showing that digital legal purchasing is working and if you want to get it for free or illegally you would always find a way anyway (as it has always been). people rip tunes off myspace players, there is a lot of crazy ripping going on, but as long as enough people really pay labels can at least survive)..

Just be thankfull that labels such as Argon release digital at all. Most of them still don't. Personally I don't blame them a bit for waiting. Feel lucky the wait is only a week or whatever. They could wait until the vinyl is sold out. Thats what I would do.

NoMoreComaStep wrote:whereas the UK kru can simply hop a train to the local shop and pick it up, no shipping.

They beat me on the shipping, they beat me by at least a week trying to compete in the same industry playing these tunes... basically, American's who play digital are being royally fucked by at least a week, and if they don't buy vinyl at all, it's 2 weeks for Argon, longer for most labels.

this is where you and i agree. having lived and dj'd in the uk. yes, friday or saturday morning im one of the first ones inside blackmarket. however, since coming to the states, i no longer have this option. conversely, i listen to sets, find out release dates. yet, by the time i get an email from juno or boomkat or any of the other sites i shop or on the forum about a TP or a run finally coming in, im still beat out because its already out of stock. additionally, if i do get my order, again im waiting x amount of days before it arrives. this is one of the reasons i dont post dubstep mixes even though i mix all the time. its old by the time it gets here. as a new yorker, i have also found breakbeat science to be of some help but not much. as a solution, i cut dubplates now of tunes from my fellow forum producers. so hold tight blackmass, kelly dean, abz, loetech, reso and anyone else whos let me cut their tunes-big thank yous. i still buy vinyl, a lot of it. i just dont expect to have anything within the release date.
happy skanking

actually that was a bit harsh