Dubstepforum.com

I did a search for threads like this but couldn’t find any, so apologies if we're covering familiar ground.

Blackdown wrote in his end of year pitchfork contribution about how dubstep was following dnb down the same cul de sac and doing so with its eyes wide open as a scene.

I remember, as do many no doubt, when drum n bass seemed this limitless medium, where creative breakbeat manipulation was the way forward and it wasn't even really pigeonholed, it was just advanced breakbeat music that seemed to have unlimited promise.

The time arrived in dubstep when I would start having to wade through more and more fodder to pluck out the skull disco 12”, or the Martyn remix, the Kode 9 track just standing high over every other wobbly piece of formulaic shite in the weeks releases.

I remember years back the weeks DnB releases would hit, and i was fortunate to have a journalist friend writing for Wax/Mixmag/Knowledge, and i would wade through the review copies with him, taking home several quality bits each week that I’d still play now nearly a decade on.

But as time went on in DnB I’d be staring at what Dev Paradox describes as a “load of old wobble bollocks”. And perhaps pluck one solid bit of thoughtfully produced music made without constraints or conditions out of the quagmire, if i was lucky.

When I was 19 I grew up warming up for Djs like Dev, Tony justice, Suv. Klute, Pieter K, Nucleus, we had Danny breaks , Total science, Aqua Sky, etc. and gradually it all fell apart & we stopped booking & I had morons shouting & me “come on mate, play somefink harder, faster!”

As everyone bore witness to, the scene got taken over by formulaic generic sounding templates. Early last year Paradox/Nucleus played in Amsterdam @ IChiOne & dev played a “tunes that influenced me” set , inbetween tracks his banter included laments like “why oh why cant Dnb be like this again?!” & “…Wobble came along and ruined everything!”

Now to visibly check my pessimism I have to say its all good, yes its happening again with our eyes wide open but that’s cool, it’s the way of things.

It can be frustrating & you can see when the scene has occurred and the mechanics are in motion when the key players start to disassociate themselves from the pigeonhole that the sound they helped create has been plunked into (and the releases all start to sound the same)!

But it also means people get paid for doing what they love and its their time now & up to the individual how much integrity they want to maintain.

I have the cream of DnB’s creative surge on vinyl,late 90’s onward, same with dark UK garage and now with dubstep, and I play sets programmed with Horsepower, Rufige Kru, burial, TRG, classic Reinforced Dnb like Arcon 2, Zed Bias, Digital mystikz, cert.18 stuff like Teebee and Polar, El B, Milanese, Breakage, Scuba, various production, Klute, Paradox, etc. etc.

& you know what? Its all UK underground bass music, a lot of it has the potential to be timeless as examples of creative electronic music and its something that makes me feel a weird kind of patriotism when you see the rest of the world freaking over the sounds that emerge from our island. And the DOPE productions that result from this international sound and scene forming.

Thoughts anyone?

Dev can be a whingy old tnuc sometimes.

yeah maybe im falling into the same trap man, it is raining outside...

Ah you see people, it takes a man from Kernow to speak the truth!

yeah, but i'd leave off on the patriotism though. never attractive, whatever form it takes

Yeah i guess what Im trying to say to counterbalance what i admit can read back as being a bit of a jaded post is that its cool cause for all the rubbish these Uk Scenes have spawned there's also been a wealth of quality thats survived long after the furore's died down.

The thing that really pisses me off, is how many times you hear "avoid formulas / break the rules / be different" and then when that actually happens all the sheep look at each other waiting to be told that it's OK to like what they're hearing.

Yeah you're so right, there's always the nathan Barleys of this world, but if somethings good regardless of "genre" it'll endure and get played on, get picked up on by anyone with a discerning ear, if you know yourself and you know what you like then its cool, if you're waiting around to be told "whats different, whats you should be seen to be into cos the wire said or whatever" as said above then you're really not feeling it and you dont know where you are or what you're doing and you're lost..and its painfully transparent.

SLVA wrote: The thing that really pisses me off, is how many times you hear "avoid formulas / break the rules / be different" and then when that actually happens all the sheep look at each other waiting to be told that it's OK to like what they're hearing.

True. They'd rather someone else figured it out for them cause their busy doing something else. When they do seize on something they like, the arse inevitably gets dragged out of it. Best time to push boundaries seems to be at the start of a new sound, if your looking for widespread exceptance as a producer, after that it becomes harder to access a market that has unconciously adopted a set of rules. Things aren't that narrow in Dubstep yet thou, lots of good stuff coming out.

(IMO not all recent wobble is disposable. I can see myself playing ASBO and DZ-Slums for years yet)

ikeaboy wrote:

(IMO not all recent wobble is disposable. I can see myself playing ASBO and DZ-Slums for years yet)

Very true, me too.

ocr wrote:yeah maybe im falling into the same trap man, it is raining outside...

its not rainin!

here anyway

There's just one artist operating in the field of dubstep (all unreleased producers I've heard included) I don't particurlarly like. Just one.

I am new to this scene and not exactly what you would call a scenster. Love the music but cant really say i feel compelled to listen to it all night in a club. But perhaps that partlky my age as well.

I think what happens is, as the music becomes more popular more and more people move from fans to makers. Due to the accessability of today's production software everyone and their mom makes beats/music.

This ultimately helps to dilute the quality of the material being made.

When drum and bass first came about you had to have a shit load of expensive gear to make music, when it got to mid-90's ( 97-onwards) The amount of people making tunes and putting them out increased to fold thanks to the inexpense of equipment.

The main thing i like about Dubstep is the creative possibilities with it. It's easy to throw a basic beat together, but the amount of freedom given to experiment within it is huge. I cant say wether or not it is being fully exploited to become more creative music as im new to it, but I do think it has a good future.

The other thing with journo's rubbishing stuff is. It is a fairly easy way for them to bring attention to their name and try to prolonge their career's. The shelf life of a music jorno must be pretty small, and 90% of them are just haters because they cant make decent music so they just rubbish it instead.

maybe it was the spray coming of the grey ocean carried on those howling southwesterly winds, either way it prompted me to write a bleak post, which i apologise for

anyway it always feels like its raining in camborne so pipe down son & stop being so bloody cheerful, its winter, its grey & there's loads of rubbish releases OUT THERE

I will have my moment of melancholy and you wont stop me with your spritely optimism jake!!

ikeaboy wrote:

Things aren't that narrow in Dubstep yet thou, lots of good stuff coming out.

again, very true. I dont dispute that. I wouldnt even be on this forum if that weren't the case

When drum and bass first came about you had to have a shit load of expensive gear to make music, when it got to mid-90's ( 97-onwards) The amount of people making tunes and putting them out increased to fold thanks to the inexpense of equipment.

But it was at that time that a second wave of heads got on it along with a bastion of other "not so creative types" if you like, and the two ran in tandem before it all went wrong and the disposable beats won quantity over quality.

There was some great music that came about because the technology became more accessible, as well as a dirge of rubbish that never should have seen a release.

Some producers got bored moved on, making broken beat, techno, whatever, some disappointingly, "sold out" if you like. Started rinsing it, smashing it with big tunes at big shows...making tunes in a morning and churning them out,and why not... i think i probably would. well..except for that last bit

Battle Gong wrote:yeah, but i'd leave off on the patriotism though. never attractive, whatever form it takes

How so?

Musically, England has got so much to be proud of, think it would be silly to disregard that because you dont wanna come over as some flag waving idiot.

Bob Crunkhouse wrote:

Battle Gong wrote:yeah, but i'd leave off on the patriotism though. never attractive, whatever form it takes

How so?

Musically, England has got so much to be proud of, think it would be silly to disregard that because you dont wanna come over as some flag waving idiot.

absolutely, i didn't rush to respond cos i didnt want to stray off topic into any contentious territory but, yeah , thankyou Bob.

I'm most likely moving to Bristol when i return from some planned travels and im just unbelievably stoked and humbled to be rocking up in Brizzle town with my laptop and my record bag when i consider the cities musical heritage and culture...and thats just bristol...

yeh totally, i would be too!

Im well happy to be in Brighton at the moment and cant wait to get to London in a few years, great stuff going on everywhere..

I think the key here is LONGEVITY.

rekorder wrote:I think the key here is LONGEVITY.

How you mean? The longevity of certain music forms or even individual tunes surviving the test of time and all the whirlwind bullshit of a scene rising and falling etc.? Thats what im trying to say. That whatever happens its great because whatever people's perceptions are of whats happening with dubstep there's some solid music flowing out on release and I'm just curious to see to what extent (if any) other people see this thing mirroring the creative surge we saw in DnB coupled with the disposable pap that also overewhlemed the scene back then.

I dunno man, I feel like if the genre does go to shit then fuck the genre... the problem with it is almost that it IS a genre.

Seeing Kode and Martyn the other night, a lot of it was dubstep but not really the sort of thing dubstep has become seen as. Now, either the scene allows for the accomodation of that, or that thing splits off from the scene and supports itself. But the fact that I saw these two amazing sets at FWD definitely says something positive about the flexibility of the dubstep in 2008.

There is still shit loads of good new interesting ground breaking stuff coming out the scene.

I am jaded about enough stuff but not Dubstep.

the scenes got bigger, so you need to try harder to find something you love as much coz there are more producers etc.

its a compromise, yeah it takes a bit more time to find something that makes you go nuts, but there are more songs and youre taste gets finer

at the same time the sound cant stay as it was forever, I mean my fave stuff is still Dubstep Allstars 2 era, but I can still totally appreciate the newer stuff, the wobbles when they are good for that they are also.

instead of moaning, try finding the tonnes of good shit. I mean just check out whats going on in Bristol right now, absolutely nuts shit!