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other than the stuff about ensuring each element has its own space in the frequency range, is there anything that can be done about this?

i hear some tracks and even though all the sounds are fat, and must take up plenty of frequency range, each element sounds clear in the mix, they jump out of the speaker

i struggle to get that out of my tracks, if i try to design and eq the elements into their own places they end up sounding too thin, losing all their presence anyway...

any advice would be very much appreciated

elgato wrote:other than the stuff about ensuring each element has its own space in the frequency range, is there anything that can be done about this?

i hear some tracks and even though all the sounds are fat, and must take up plenty of frequency, each element sounds clear in the mix, they jump out of the speaker

i struggle to get that out of my tracks

have you experimented with sidechaining compression? if not, definetly worth a look, not a be all and all technique but it's one way.

try not to be too agressive with your frequency cuts. it is rarely the case that each instrument has a dedicated, mutually exclusive frequency range. it is more the case that a freq in one instrument is cut until it sits just behind another, or wothavyer. this means alot of stuff overlaps but not in a 'thisishowmysamplestoldmetodoit' kinda way...

would help i think if you up'd a song that you were say a little unhappy with in the respect you describe then we could get our ears round it and be a lot more specific/helpful

peace.

spencerTron wrote:have you experimented with sidechaining compression? if not, definetly worth a look, not a be all and all technique but it's one way.

yeh i've kind of dallied with it but need to go into it in a much more considered way i think. does anyone have any advice as to how to think about it?

miss_molinari wrote:try not to be too agressive with your frequency cuts. it is rarely the case that each instrument has a dedicated, mutually exclusive frequency range. it is more the case that a freq in one instrument is cut until it sits just behind another, or wothavyer. this means alot of stuff overlaps but not in a 'thisishowmysamplestoldmetodoit' kinda way...

would help i think if you up'd a song that you were say a little unhappy with in the respect you describe then we could get our ears round it and be a lot more specific/helpful

peace.

thanks i'll have a look and maybe up something soon

your tunes are heavy btw, just checked them, sounding really nice

elgato wrote:your tunes are heavy btw, just checked them, sounding really nice

Second that, Your Time is outstanding! Would love to grab that.

I've been playing with parallel (or new york compression) a bit lately. Basically double the elements you want to stand out and compress the shit out of one track, then lower its volume and mix back in. Basically it offers the attack/aggression without killing the dynamics.

But sidechaining rules, you should try it. Even if it's only for some movement it makes a huge difference.

kwality wrote:I've been playing with parallel (or new york compression) a bit lately. Basically double the elements you want to stand out and compress the shit out of one track, then lower its volume and mix back in. Basically it offers the attack/aggression without killing the dynamics.

yes mayt!! not on the low end though

i have songs where by the end of it you have to shout to be heard, not because of volume, but because of this gradually/incrementally taking place. pretty funny to watch.

edit: remembering a very wide fat mid-bass electro tune i made that has five bass tracks all subtly mixed so as to be indestinguishable. all four panned, 2 compressed to shit.

really awful in the scheme of things but for elctro was good and also was goal acheived so to speak, not that that is always a good thing...

kwality wrote:I've been playing with parallel (or new york compression) a bit lately. Basically double the elements you want to stand out and compress the shit out of one track, then lower its volume and mix back in. Basically it offers the attack/aggression without killing the dynamics.

yeh i've been using this on my percussion for a while, and have found that it definitely gives a lot more bite... but still sometimes it sounds too thin, i think i need to be re-examining the original samples im using, and maybe layering some sounds with a different frequency presence in and resampling to give me fatter hits

Its not just one particular thing its everything to get it to sit perfectly. Eq, stereo placement, reverb, delay, compression etc etc. Not just one specific thing to each sound. Practise mate is the best advice i can give you instead of some peeps going into one about this and that.

Docwra wrote:Its not just one particular thing its everything to get it to sit perfectly. Eq, stereo placement, reverb, delay, compression etc etc. Not just one specific thing to each sound. Practise mate is the best advice i can give you instead of some peeps going into one about this and that.

truer words, never spoke. people can bang on all day about freq' boosts, etc, but unless its the sound you are looking for then its no use to you...

persevere.

thanks Docwra, wise words. but any tips as to the kind of things i need to be thinking about are really helpful

miss_molinari wrote:persevere.

this is the one isnt it!

ha! Good thread.

And sound advice. npi

MusicTech ran an article this past month on using proper separation in your mix to improve the clarity of each element. One of the best things I took away from the article was to experiment with not only the frequency range of the mix (separating high and low) but to use the pan and fade to place certain elements either a little to the right/left or front/back. Good tips in it though....worth a read.

i seriously recommend this book


check out the visuals on this link
explains the 3D space in between the speakers that is available to you as a mixer,
and thoroughly details how different effects, EQ, reverb, delay, chorus, etc, etc, change the sound and its placement in the mix. has many helpful visual representations to go along with everything, and even represents "standard mixes" for a lot of different genres visually.
but it is very useful for any genre of music mixed in stereo format. i've had this book for a while and still read it often. i promise you wont regret the purchase no matter how long you've been making music.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2464584/The-A ... al-Section

volume balance, dynamics, and arrangement above all.

squash shit that doesn't need to be straight up-front so that there's dynamic space for the important elements to sit and take over. if you want the sound of compression on your kick/snare etc, then yeah-- do it in parallel and maintain the original smack-ness of it.

the simpler solution is almost always the better-sounding one. come mix time, when you're more shaping things that you've already written, a simpler eq curve will generally sound better than one with crazy peaks and valleys--especially on the elements that lead your track.

also-- saturation is KEY. in place of plain old compression and limiting, try distortion and saturation-- really get those up-front elements feeling big and full, and leave the things that can be thin, thin.

or ultimately-- start with banging samples, do very little to them, and let everything else fall in behind. heard "anti-war dub" lately? very little going on in that tune but the kick and snare are nice and full, the sub sits under the kick so that you don't lose the punch, and the whole tune just jumps out of the speakers.

thanks very much everyone, some great stuff for me to take away from this thread

Thanks TeReKeTe

Can you reccomend a good saturater?

vintagewarmer can be good-- will definitely add weight but can also add fuzz and some haziness. the 'knee' knob for the limiter is definitley the best feature on it... the 2nd best is the fact that you can mix in the effect of the vintagewarmer, thereby almost doing it in parallel. very powerful tool-- strap it across your drum group and see what it does.

camelphat and the freebie, camelcrusher, are great for emulations of both tube and transitor distortion and also come with a 'mix' feature (and a filter...and a compressor that can work as a limiter as well). still can't believe camelcrusher is free.

otherewise in logic, i love the bitcrusher. might need to gate and eq after it but taking drums down to 6 or 7 bits and putting 13db of overdrive on them can make a world of difference.

i recently moved onto Cubase from Reason and instantly noticed how much clearer the audio is.

in reason i'd find myself eq'ing absolutley everything. in cubase sometimes it just isn't needed

i don't know if this is because i'm using better samples, or because cubase is just better sounding software, or a combination of the two

the main thing for me in the mixdown is making sure the bassdrum and sub/bass don't clash. thats the only part i find hard. especially on a sampled bassdrum with lots of different frequencies...