Planning out a tune/riddim

[feasible_weasel]

does everybody sketch it out first, or just go with it
i may have to do that, because im shit and making something unless theres are structure...

[thetaco]

the only way I ever finish a tune is if I get the main idea out then create a skeleton with the parts I have.


i.e.

Intro goes here leave it blank for 16-32 bars

drop from x-x

break x-x

drop x-x

outro x-x

this, of course, gets changed a lot throughout building the song, but at least when I do that I have some direction to take the song. I don't have a set formula I do this too, I just drag stuff around to where I feel it should go.

[greenseed]

just goooooooooooooooo

[feasible_weasel]

just goooooooooooooooo

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDD

[feasible_weasel]

the only way I ever finish a tune is if I get the main idea out then create a skeleton with the parts I have.


i.e.

Intro goes here leave it blank for 16-32 bars

drop from x-x

break x-x

drop x-x

outro x-x

this, of course, gets changed a lot throughout building the song, but at least when I do that I have some direction to take the song. I don't have a set formula I do this too, I just drag stuff around to where I feel it should go.

cool

[legend4ry]

Ive only really started to take structure into a consideration, I used to just make stuff till it got a bit boring, switch it up...


I dunno I find working under a structure a lot easier to decide what to do with the sounds and the drums.


Just what works I guess?

Its always nice to have a guide line though!

[feasible_weasel]

Ive only really started to take structure into a consideration, I used to just make stuff till it got a bit boring, switch it up...


I dunno I find working under a structure a lot easier to decide what to do with the sounds and the drums.


Just what works I guess?

Its always nice to have a guide line though!

yeah

[bitter]

What currently works for me is to build up a 'master' loop of 8-16bars with lead, pads, samples, bass, drums, all parts playing, and possibly a second one for a breakdown. I keep these intact but in the score at the end of the track, and start deconstructing and combining individual elements to build and structure the track. I then write individual edits/variations to existing parts and patterns as I go and only compose new stuff if it seems to be lacking.

For me its a good way of knowing where you've got to build to and keeps the tune in line with your original idea as I always write bassline or lead line ideas first, then add the beat. I find my tunes end up more 'musical' (catchy?) this way.

Writing as you go along isn't necessarily wrong, it just doesn't work for me and I prefer the results when I separate the composing / structuring / mixing tasks. Each to their own I guess

[Jak The lad]

I always try and create two loops 1st, then I varie them for intros, breaks, outros etc... but normally time and structure is done on the fly.

[deckgeneral]

In general dubstep is based on 16 bar sections, although the whole ethos of dubstep is about making exciting music without being rigid, That is where Drum and Bass got stale and sales dwindled by being rigid, being played by a small set of name DJ's and producers all copying each other, rather than like in the early stages, moving the sound and production techniques forward...

So Perhaps track structure should be trated with a pinch of salt, if it works for DJ's Clubber and listeners, and Drops and sells!!! then the structure must be good..

[doomproduction]

i normally start by making some drums, followed by the main bassline synths.

then fx.

once i know it's a decent tune i'll start building around it i.e. intro, pads, cheeky drum tricks, cool vocal samples etc

[b-lam]

just goooooooooooooooo

^^this

just start, make a cup of tea and make some wacky sound/chord progression and go wherever the tune takes you. IMO if you've got too much of a plan logically, the soul never really gets a chance to shape the tune.

[slothrop]

I tend to work up one or two big multilayered 8/16/32 bar sections and a few variations, then structure everything by copying and dragging and pasting from them. I'm generally listening up to where it's got to and then wondering what wants to happen next or what would make the current bit better, adding variations or new material on the go if neccessary. I tend to end up with some sort of intro - section - breakdown - section - outro anyway: quiet bit - loud bit - quiet bit - loud bit - quiet bit seems like a fairly natural sort of structure.

I'm pretty shit at expanding loops into tunes though, so maybe I should try something else.

On a practical note, if you have a fairly linear sequencer and want to go from looped sections to a full length tune, where do you put stuff? I tend to end up starting the actual tune somewhere after the 'sketchpad' area and going back to the beginning to get parts as I need them. But I've never really seen anyone else work in a sequencer - is there a more sensible way of doing things?

At the moment, I'm thinking the ultimate solution is going to be getting a host with badman loop triggering options and do the layouts on the fly in real time to make sure it flows naturally.

[deadly]

On a practical note, if you have a fairly linear sequencer and want to go from looped sections to a full length tune, where do you put stuff? I tend to end up starting the actual tune somewhere after the 'sketchpad' area and going back to the beginning to get parts as I need them. But I've never really seen anyone else work in a sequencer - is there a more sensible way of doing things?

At the moment, I'm thinking the ultimate solution is going to be getting a host with badman loop triggering options and do the layouts on the fly in real time to make sure it flows naturally.

The solution is called Ableton Live! It has two screensets for this purpose.

It's the main thing I miss since swapping over to Logic. Now I keep all little sections at the end of the track and just keep moving them which is a bit annoying.

[b-lam]

On a practical note, if you have a fairly linear sequencer and want to go from looped sections to a full length tune, where do you put stuff? I tend to end up starting the actual tune somewhere after the 'sketchpad' area and going back to the beginning to get parts as I need them. But I've never really seen anyone else work in a sequencer - is there a more sensible way of doing things?

At the moment, I'm thinking the ultimate solution is going to be getting a host with badman loop triggering options and do the layouts on the fly in real time to make sure it flows naturally.

The solution is called Ableton Live! It has two screensets for this purpose.

It's the main thing I miss since swapping over to Logic. Now I keep all little sections at the end of the track and just keep moving them which is a bit annoying.

why not rewire and have midi tracks in ableton controlling the synths/tracks in logic...

use logic like the arrangement view in ableton

[deadly]

^ I would but unfortunately I can't afford to buy the Mac version of Ableton!

[slim]

I find planning my tracks on paper once i have a few basic ideas (or before i even go to the sequencer sometimes) helps a lot, stops any mindless noodling and gives me a bit more purpose. Plus it means i can work on tracks when not actually at the computer which is nice.

What i tend to do is to come up with a title or style or general vibe first, piss about with some drums for a bit to get the right tempo (i don't really make dubstep, so it's all over the place tempo-wise), then plan it in a notebook i have.

I use each line to represent four bars, with the number of bars in the margin next to the the timestamp for that block (bit of simple maths to work that out)

On each of those lines goes a description of what is going on, or even just vague suggestions that allow for improvisation, which is crucial even when planning stuff.

That's basically how i work, but i'm kind of laughing at how seriously it sounds like i take it / myself, when i really haven't been doing this long. I so don't.