death
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:09 pm
why is so hard for us to let go ??
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why is so hard for us to let go ??
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:10 pm
What's up Amy. Can I help you with anything?
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:13 pm
Isnt it obvious?
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:16 pm
Sorry for asking.Thomas wrote:Isnt it obvious?
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:25 pm
no i mean in other cultures they celebrate when a loved one passes, but in western culture we mourn. kind of dark. seems like our culture is void of any real solid spiritual basis to deal with death. a lot of us don't even believe in an 'afterlife' of any sort, but how can something simply no longer exist ? is the idea of an afterlife simply a way to cope with loss? or is death really a spirits passage to the next phase ?
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:41 pm
Sounds really mixed up if you ask me. Certain cultures don't mourn in the same way as us, nothing to do with how spiritual they are.
Afterlife is somthing people either belive in or dont, its not science its subject to change as quick as the number one football team is. i personally believe religion on the whole is a way to make sence of everything which makes no sence. It may sound morbid, but death is death, for better or worse its the ending of a human/animal on earth.which ever way you choose to mourn that passing is for the benefit of the mourners.
Afterlife is somthing people either belive in or dont, its not science its subject to change as quick as the number one football team is. i personally believe religion on the whole is a way to make sence of everything which makes no sence. It may sound morbid, but death is death, for better or worse its the ending of a human/animal on earth.which ever way you choose to mourn that passing is for the benefit of the mourners.
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:52 pm
its the attachment to the form thats the problem. we miss/mourn the absence of the presence person.
the characteristics/memories that make up the person to us have and never will exist outside of the mind.
also, think of it like the water cycle.water gets carried down the river as it shoots out in different directions. the water eventually reaches the sea. then it evaporates and begins a new type of journey in the air and clouds. it doesnt look like water any more but 'it' is still there.falls back on the mountains eventually and the cycle continues. same as 'life'...this is just a phase.
energy never 'dies' it just shifts its form into new types of energy.
if you limit your pereption of 'life' and place exclusive defintion or importance boundaries to just yours and the people you know then yeah, death becomes a 'loss'. realise that you came out the universe and you'll go back into it in one way or another. nothing is being lost or gained. its the duality of life and death that allows both to exist. dont get attached to either half.
death isnt something to fear. if anything you should fear the attachment to the dying form. that doesnt mean you cant show compassion towards it however.
i think in the west we tend to automatically categorise the people we know, family freinds etc as possesions in one way or another. not possesions on the same 'value' as a house or car etc but on some level they're still misconceived as possesions...we dont acknoweldge it or mean it deliberately but the people and objects 'in' our life wrongly become what our life is defined by.
our life should really be defined as the life we are as apposed to being defined by the content within the life we 'have'
the characteristics/memories that make up the person to us have and never will exist outside of the mind.
also, think of it like the water cycle.water gets carried down the river as it shoots out in different directions. the water eventually reaches the sea. then it evaporates and begins a new type of journey in the air and clouds. it doesnt look like water any more but 'it' is still there.falls back on the mountains eventually and the cycle continues. same as 'life'...this is just a phase.
energy never 'dies' it just shifts its form into new types of energy.
if you limit your pereption of 'life' and place exclusive defintion or importance boundaries to just yours and the people you know then yeah, death becomes a 'loss'. realise that you came out the universe and you'll go back into it in one way or another. nothing is being lost or gained. its the duality of life and death that allows both to exist. dont get attached to either half.
death isnt something to fear. if anything you should fear the attachment to the dying form. that doesnt mean you cant show compassion towards it however.
i think in the west we tend to automatically categorise the people we know, family freinds etc as possesions in one way or another. not possesions on the same 'value' as a house or car etc but on some level they're still misconceived as possesions...we dont acknoweldge it or mean it deliberately but the people and objects 'in' our life wrongly become what our life is defined by.
our life should really be defined as the life we are as apposed to being defined by the content within the life we 'have'
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:54 pm
western cultures are greedy by nature
we want our loved ones to be around for our own selfish reasons
eventhough my father had suffered from advanced parkinsons for 16 years, I was still very upset when he passed. I felt as if I was short changed in the game of life
in actuality, I was lucky to be able to connect with him during his last days, unlike so many people that have their loved ones stripped away from them due to tragic events like car crashes, heart attacks, stroke, etc...
also I have read the bardo thodol and that led me to realize we can go to a higher dimension when we pass
we want our loved ones to be around for our own selfish reasons
eventhough my father had suffered from advanced parkinsons for 16 years, I was still very upset when he passed. I felt as if I was short changed in the game of life
in actuality, I was lucky to be able to connect with him during his last days, unlike so many people that have their loved ones stripped away from them due to tragic events like car crashes, heart attacks, stroke, etc...
also I have read the bardo thodol and that led me to realize we can go to a higher dimension when we pass
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:03 pm
i do know that death is the only thing 100% guaranteed out of life.
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:04 pm
Some people say that they are scared of death, but I'm not. I want to live for as long as i can because i enjoy life, but if you were to die in a car crash then why would it matter? you are dead and you wouldn't have any compassion once deceased so really there is nothing to be scared about.
thats my selfish beliefs.
thats my selfish beliefs.
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:14 pm
no such thing.
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:15 pm
^
- mark twainI had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:39 pm
pretty much every funeral i've ever been to has been a combination of celebrating a persons life and mourning their death. surely it's only natural to have a bit of both?kamala wrote:no i mean in other cultures they celebrate when a loved one passes, but in western culture we mourn. kind of dark. seems like our culture is void of any real solid spiritual basis to deal with death.
and as far as i'm aware this is universal. i'd be surprised if there were any cultures that didn't mourn death to some extent, but i'm always open to being proven wrong.
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:58 pm
i have been to some funerals that have been really rough. so sad, so depressing that they leave you in bits afterwards.
but, i have also been to some amazing ones. proper celebrations of a life. people are upset but in a different way.
i think the whole massive release of emotion at difficult funeral is like a sort of basic instinct. almost like being like a small child that is upset, in the way that you are unable to express/explain how you feel... if that makes sense.
that level of emotion is hard to explain and i think thats why some people find it hard to let go, because people are almost afraid to go through the mourning process.
but, i have also been to some amazing ones. proper celebrations of a life. people are upset but in a different way.
i think the whole massive release of emotion at difficult funeral is like a sort of basic instinct. almost like being like a small child that is upset, in the way that you are unable to express/explain how you feel... if that makes sense.
that level of emotion is hard to explain and i think thats why some people find it hard to let go, because people are almost afraid to go through the mourning process.
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:15 pm
UmkhontoWeSizwe wrote:pretty much every funeral i've ever been to has been a combination of celebrating a persons life and mourning their death. surely it's only natural to have a bit of both?kamala wrote:no i mean in other cultures they celebrate when a loved one passes, but in western culture we mourn. kind of dark. seems like our culture is void of any real solid spiritual basis to deal with death.
and as far as i'm aware this is universal. i'd be surprised if there were any cultures that didn't mourn death to some extent, but i'm always open to being proven wrong.
yes absolutely .. it would be natural to have both
everyone is bringing up really interesting points.i think on the most basic physical level if anything - death is about a returning to the earth. when we die our bodies decompose and we do literally become part of the earth again. but in some ways our cultural psyche is a bit resistant to that returning of the earth, like we want to retain or preserve the passed / past .. and we embalm our dead and keep them in these sealed coffins ... i donno just sometimes i think we don't know how to let go. material items are a big part of our lives and true, that does include the people we love. death is scary because its a mystery, something no one can escape, yet no one understands. for me i feel more afraid of what happens before death, because if after death i cease to exist, that's that. and if i continue in some other form, well, that should be interesting to say the least. but HOW i die and how much i suffer, and my loved ones too for that matter, is the scariest part. a timely peaceful death is one thing, but sudden and traumatic deaths are another monster, and i find those the hardest to let go of. everyone has their own personal spiritual basis to deal with these things .. but i wonder if as a culture we are lacking in that arena. when 9-11 happened "president" bush told the country to SHOP in response to the loss. That's just an example, but it concerns me. we play with death like a toy, jokes and games and films and wars and even our attitude about eating meat, but when it strikes close to home, as a culture we have no real response system to handle it effectively.
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:20 pm
i don't think spirituality makes it any easier. i mean have you seen the way muslim women scream and wail in mourning? you have to be spiritual by buddhist proportions to be philosophical enough about the whole event to be calm and happy about it. humans don't like having things taken away. any things.
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:01 pm
it sux when you know you aint gunna see someone again so of course you will be upset
but death comes to us all im real curious about it ,not like id top myself but the thought of this amazing process right at the end of your life like a leap into the unknown fasinates me.
but death comes to us all im real curious about it ,not like id top myself but the thought of this amazing process right at the end of your life like a leap into the unknown fasinates me.
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:52 pm
At a traditional Indian funeral (as in, a long time ago, not as in 'a bit old fashioned'), a widowed wife was supposed to throw herself onto her husband's funeral pyre. I dunno, that doesn't sound much more hip to the illusory nature of death next to the cosmic oneness than most western funerals.
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:56 pm
The Salvation Army use the phrase "Promoted to Glory" to refer to death. 
I've been to a couple of (very) Catholic funerals in the past few years, and they were fairly severe - it's basically all about the afterlife and how it's alright that they've died, life is brief and everyone dies but they were good catholics so they're with God now. Pretty depressing if you're an atheist and would rather celebrate someone's life.
I've been to a couple of (very) Catholic funerals in the past few years, and they were fairly severe - it's basically all about the afterlife and how it's alright that they've died, life is brief and everyone dies but they were good catholics so they're with God now. Pretty depressing if you're an atheist and would rather celebrate someone's life.
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:51 pm
i said the same thing after finishing a burrito at lunch yesterday, couldnt believe its cheesey bean filled tortilla goodness had simply ended...but low and behold, it came back today to make its official exit and let me know it was leaving me for good....the circle is completekamala wrote: but how can something simply no longer exist ?