Filter science for dubstep wump wump wump..

[robert axios]

New to the boards here, hey everyone!

I have been getting to know the dubstep sounds and trying to create legit sounding stuff using my emu sampler - coming up with a lot of stuff but finding a lot of limitations in it that I didn't notice before. This is complicated music to make..

My BIGGEST problem is getting really well defined wub wub wub's. I guess a lot of this has to do with my base cutoff and how far up my LFO's take it - although I notice very different results with the 2 4 and 6 pole LPF's of course. It sounds like most dubstep is probably done with 6pole or higher order to emphasize the filter sweep - does this sound right? While the 2pole gave a nice dirty sound, you don't really get much of a 'wump' when it sweeps..


Also I have a lot of personal beef with how envelopes and lfo's are done inside of the emu. To solve this and really get the expression I want I am going to set up outboard analog filtering (along with LFO/envelopes etc obviously). I'm totally comfortable with doing this, but what kind of filter should I be looking at?

Our good old friends such as the moog ladder seem like poor choices since I don't want any resonance at all. If I want a little reso I can work that in on the emu side of things (it's filter or the patch itself) before it hits my 'wump' filters. What I'm thinking is maybe going with some state variable filters that won't have a lot of character, and chain 2 or 3 of them on the same envelope for some serious emphasis. What do you guys think about that?


I don't do software or VST's so I am completely not interested in that conversation (or having my thread hijacked)... I realize this is different and I am hoping to find inclusion in the dubstep scene since that's kind of what it's all about


Thanks!!

Robert

[setspeed]

well, good luck!

i doubt you'll find too many hardware sampler users on here though to be honest. my Akai got stolen in 2001 and I've been software ever since, so i can't really be of too much help! used an A3000 for a while after that but never really learned the ins and outs of it.

keep playing with it though, i think you can really get some distinctive sounds through hardware

[Sharmaji]

my man, yr basically trying to fight a sword battle with a bunch of tanks and f18's. i'd venture to say that 80-90% of the wobbles you hear in dubstep tunes are done via soft synths.

as far as filter settings go, a nice 24-48db cutoff will get the sharp resonance yr looking for. otherwise, i refer you to the big thread of wobble... and yr good ol' sine/triangle wave from an LFO. the amount that that controls the cutoff is where the real wobbliness comes from-- don't keep anything static and yr on yr way.

[knobgoblin]

wobbles are certainly doable with hardware. If you are going the external filtering route, there are tons of options, but it will definatly cost a lot more. My preference is for modular synths. you can use your sampler to make the raw tone and just get a midi to CV converter, a few filters, VCAs, and an envelope generator and an LFO....just make sure that it has a sync input. If you've heard the new Meat Beat Manifesto album, he's using a modular synth for his basses, and processing pretty much everything else through it. But also, you have to realize that so much about those sorts of bass sounds are from the post processing that happens while mixing. If you havent been able to make convincing wobbles on the emu yet, you need to keep practicing because it has as much to do with the processing as it does the synthesis. Also, do a lot more with the sound before it even gets to the filtering stage. Add things like chorus, phasers, reverb distortion to your waveforms and the resample them. Getting a harmonically dense sound going into the filter will certainly help accentuate the sound of the lovely emu filters. Just my 2cents

[robert axios]

But also, you have to realize that so much about those sorts of bass sounds are from the post processing that happens while mixing. If you havent been able to make convincing wobbles on the emu yet, you need to keep practicing because it has as much to do with the processing as it does the synthesis. Also, do a lot more with the sound before it even gets to the filtering stage. Add things like chorus, phasers, reverb distortion to your waveforms and the resample them. Getting a harmonically dense sound going into the filter will certainly help accentuate the sound of the lovely emu filters. Just my 2cents

Thanks, this is exactly the advice I was looking for. Absolutely perfect

I have read a huge amount regarding getting the wobble sound (on this board and elsewhere) and have only seen a tiny bit of mention about having a lot of harmonic content give emphasis on the wump sound - that's great and makes perfect sense. This gives me a lot to chew on

you can use your sampler to make the raw tone and just get a midi to CV converter, a few filters, VCAs, and an envelope generator and an LFO....just make sure that it has a sync input.

Awesome - I am with you 100% on the modular route and that's what I actually meant. The reason I didn't specify was that if someone named a commercial filter that was a good fit I am not squeamish about DIY'ing one (synth diy is great stuff)

I do not have a proper modular YET, but I have some modules and circuits - I need to pull the trigger and make a nice big 8 channel MIDI -> CV/Gate here so that I can get the show on the road. Using the sampler as an oscillator/source seems like it will be extremely versatile since I can bounce with it to get really complicated sounds, and that also lets me put off building a million VCO's for the moment....


Cool stuff man, really set my thoughts in motion...

[ecliptic]

New to the boards here, hey everyone!

I have been getting to know the dubstep sounds and trying to create legit sounding stuff using my emu sampler - coming up with a lot of stuff but finding a lot of limitations in it that I didn't notice before. This is complicated music to make..

My BIGGEST problem is getting really well defined wub wub wub's. I guess a lot of this has to do with my base cutoff and how far up my LFO's take it - although I notice very different results with the 2 4 and 6 pole LPF's of course. It sounds like most dubstep is probably done with 6pole or higher order to emphasize the filter sweep - does this sound right? While the 2pole gave a nice dirty sound, you don't really get much of a 'wump' when it sweeps..


Also I have a lot of personal beef with how envelopes and lfo's are done inside of the emu. To solve this and really get the expression I want I am going to set up outboard analog filtering (along with LFO/envelopes etc obviously). I'm totally comfortable with doing this, but what kind of filter should I be looking at?

Our good old friends such as the moog ladder seem like poor choices since I don't want any resonance at all. If I want a little reso I can work that in on the emu side of things (it's filter or the patch itself) before it hits my 'wump' filters. What I'm thinking is maybe going with some state variable filters that won't have a lot of character, and chain 2 or 3 of them on the same envelope for some serious emphasis. What do you guys think about that?


I don't do software or VST's so I am completely not interested in that conversation (or having my thread hijacked)... I realize this is different and I am hoping to find inclusion in the dubstep scene since that's kind of what it's all about


Thanks!!

Robert

If you want analogue filters, go for the Allen & Heath Xone VF1. I have used one in my uni studio and its the bollox. Nice analogue filter
Check it out here-
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may05/a ... onevf1.htm