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Hi all.

I'm using Ultrabeat which I like a lot and I've made a lot of nice drum patterns, but I'm looking for a more unique sound. I'm really into Burial's rhythms and sounds when it comes to drums. Can anyone advice me a bit?

dont know what Burial uses nowadays but older stuff was done in Soundforge I believe... meaning that the drum hits would be arranged by manual placement of audio samples. He uses pretty organic, non-drum samples for drums a lot too, so I'd get creative with that sampling

it would seem from what i have read on the internet that he makes his drums using soundforge, multi-tracking audio files over each other.

this is what gives his tracks that swing the fact there is no quantize on there, and he is very selective with what sounds he chooses.

if you want to try and make drums like his, I would try to think about the feel of your drum tracks by listening to where the hits sound best rather than looking at ultrabeat and thinking box 8? box 9? etc.

sample choice is obviously a biggy, but the placement of percussion hits gives his drums the character for me, if you want to work completely in logic still (isn't ultrabeat in logic?), then I'd try importing drum samples straight into audio lanes rather than midi, and completely ignoring logic's grid.

When I've done this, I find it's best to not be perfectionist about it, work on 16/32 bar drum loops separately from writing full tunes, and make loads of them really quickly. Then when you're writing tunes you can pick out the drum loops that work, and avoid the frustration of spending hours tweaking the position of drums by milliseconds to get that 'perfect' swing.

It's hard to get drums to flow really nicely in this way, but when done nicely it can really make a tune stand out from the majority of electronic music that is quantize-based.

it's basically a 2step pattern with swing and VERY creative drum sounds

Okay thanks!

exile wrote:if you want to try and make drums like his, I would try to think about the feel of your drum tracks by listening to where the hits sound best rather than looking at ultrabeat and thinking box 8? box 9? etc.

Yeah precisely! There's a lot of feeling in his drums and the sounds match each other perfectly. There's also a lot of special "atmosphere" in his drums, so it doesn't sound so "perfect" as it is technically. I tried to add some special reverb effect in Logic where I kinda made the drums sound as they were played in a church for instance. That makes it a lot more atmospheric and it gives it a little spark I think.

On a more general level, I'm finding making 2 step drum patterns really hard, anyone got any tips?

Azair wrote:Okay thanks!

exile wrote:if you want to try and make drums like his, I would try to think about the feel of your drum tracks by listening to where the hits sound best rather than looking at ultrabeat and thinking box 8? box 9? etc.

Yeah precisely! There's a lot of feeling in his drums and the sounds match each other perfectly. There's also a lot of special "atmosphere" in his drums, so it doesn't sound so "perfect" as it is technically. I tried to add some special reverb effect in Logic where I kinda made the drums sound as they were played in a church for instance. That makes it a lot more atmospheric and it gives it a little spark I think.

if you use midi notes instead of plugging notes into a pattern matrix you will have more resoloution

instead of just 1/16th you can have 1/64th

spliffy wrote:On a more general level, I'm finding making 2 step drum patterns really hard, anyone got any tips?

They are hard. I've been trying to teach myself 2step drums and I've understood few things:

1) Kick on First beat and somewhere between the main snares. Snares on 2nd and 4th.
2)Have two hihats. One will be the "main hihat" that'll be strategically yet freely be placed between the kicks and snares. The other is the skipping, annoying shuffly hihat that gives the 2step feel. I'm doing these with mpc and the swing function is a godsend but I suppose software can have Swing aswell.
3) Drums seem to have a good amount of interplay in 2step patterns. ie. high hihat, low highhat an so forth. I'm pitching up my main kicks and snares too for ghost shots.
4) Invidual drumhits seem to be clicky, tappy and high pitched.
5)Reverse-engineering 2step patterns by placing your kicks and snares where they are in classics gives a good background to drop your own hihats.

Here's a picture of a pattern I've recorded

His drums sound like really poor quality samples of any kind of hit. It also sounds like he is using Soundforges own FX on a big part of the loops/track and probably on top of other FX from the original with EQ/compression.

Dont forget the drone samples again with Soundforges Reverb and Time Stretching.

A good way to get the swing he has is to move around your hits a tiny bit.

Does anybody else use the 808/909 in Rebirth every now and then for little beats and bobs?(I wish I had the genuine articles, tb303 too)

I find it humbling sometimes when surrounded by all these programs and vsti's that seem to do it all for you, to go back and mess with a nice and simple clunky thing. It's got quite a nice dialable groove/swing to it too.

Ludite moment over, back to now.

ive done lots of burial kinds of stuff.. Some were really cool, others weren't, but if you listen closely to the beats. You hear he makes a loop first without quantize stuff (if he doesnt lie... won't surprise me if thats just an act). Just use gunclicks for hihat percussion and stuff. Use a filtered old rave/jungle kick. Get butloads of rimshots and woodblocks and make some sweet rhytms. Burials first album is much more into rythm if you ask me. The 2nd album is more melodical really strong and then i mean the ambient pieces. You can also hear in the 2nd album he has a sort of formula in the rythm. Lots of same processed beats... How he got his drones... i dont know. Timestretch reverb whatever.... but what to reverb or timestretch i don't know. Done lots of stuff like choirs and string sympho's but nothing really came near that stuff. I would say old disco records really pitched down or something like that

triplets too people

^^yep

Caeraphym wrote:Does anybody else use the 808/909 in Rebirth every now and then for little beats and bobs?(I wish I had the genuine articles, tb303 too)

I find it humbling sometimes when surrounded by all these programs and vsti's that seem to do it all for you, to go back and mess with a nice and simple clunky thing. It's got quite a nice dialable groove/swing to it too.

Ludite moment over, back to now.

I am bit of a fan of real Techno and love playing with the 808+909. I dont think loads of FX on drums are needed to make a good tune. Those drums are bad boy still.

to the person asking about 808/909/606 hits - yes

these are more or less the only drum sounds i use

i'd say my beats are 70% 808/909/606 sounds, with lots/little processing depending on how i feel

Azair wrote:but I'm looking for a more unique sound. Can anyone advice me a bit?

If we do that then they wont be unique

BURIAL SAMPLES


archangel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3VXT15Kf4s
@00:27, @01:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5Gj0c2TO5U
@01:58


untrue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAI8R3l8YE8
@00:33, @00:46


endorphin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7zoBaHqeQ8
@00:40


etched headplate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWRIHYQwKvQ

are you burriel???

get one of these:



Play burial song and tap along with the pattern then when you go to sequence you can play the same pattern and dissect where the notes hit.

As for drum samples, that's up to you.