reverb as insert vs reverb as send

[james fox]

can't quite seem to nail the use of reverb in the tracks i'm working on. was wondering whether people are using reverb on sends across a few elements to fill the mix out, or using several different reverbs as inserts and EQing them individually...

[teqh]

I use the reverb on sends, so I can control the overall level of reverb easier, but sometimes I use two different reverbs on two sends but on the same channel strip, with different levels gives a nice effect!

[Disco Nutter]

I'll stick it to a send more often than not.
Only wet signal on send though.

[Mad_EP]

I almost exclusively use reverb as sends (rather than inserts). I prefer creating a shared space by sending various channels to the same reverb send. I feel the mix ends up blending better.

As for delays, I am split- and use them as sends and inserts with almost equal frequency.

[james fox]

it's interesting that people seem to be using them pretty much exclusively as sends...

reason is asked is that i'm really inspired by the production on the scuba LP, and a lot of the time that seems to be very few elements - usually sub, kick, percussion, maybe a synth - filling up the entire mix and sounding enormous. been struggling to get this sound using sends, so i figured that there must be just reverbs inserted on each channel and then carefully EQd and compressed together.

thanks for the replies chaps

[deadly_habit]

sometimes i'll use as an insert on say a snare layer

[Mad_EP]

don't forget that even if a reverb is used as a send... there could be multiple reverbs- all used as sends simultaneously. sometimes i'll have 3 different reverbs (or same reverbs with different settings) each on their own send channel... and all (or most) of my various instruments using each of them to varying degrees.

[james fox]

hmm, yeah i suppose it could be done by having say, three reverbs on three sends and then compressing + EQing them together...

to be honest i suspect the problem lies more in my cack-handed use of the reverb plugin than anything else

[Mad_EP]

hmm, yeah i suppose it could be done by having say, three reverbs on three sends and then compressing + EQing them together...

to be honest i suspect the problem lies more in my cack-handed use of the reverb plugin than anything else

It could be your signal flow...

Granted, you can use any FX in any order to try to get a creative or musical effect... but traditionally, I would recommend compressing & EQ'ing the instruments/samples before reverb, not after.

[b-lam]

hmm, yeah i suppose it could be done by having say, three reverbs on three sends and then compressing + EQing them together...

to be honest i suspect the problem lies more in my cack-handed use of the reverb plugin than anything else

It could be your signal flow...

Granted, you can use any FX in any order to try to get a creative or musical effect... but traditionally, I would recommend compressing & EQ'ing the instruments/samples before reverb, not after.

it's all about getting the sample sounding great before reverb...then might need additional eq/compression to get the reverb nice but that's a separate issue.

edit: I'm not really adding anything by saying this am I

[macc]

Don't underestimate the power of mono verbs used carefully as inserts on individual elements, then panned about the soundstage. That can really give a sense of space.

A big stereo verb on a send is nice for general duties, but uses all of the sound stage. If you think of things as -90 to +90 degrees (as some soundfield analysers show), a stereo verb uses the lot. A mono verb only uses that specific direction/angle/part of the field it is panned to, no more, no less. This allows defined directionality/placement of an element and can be used to give extreme width, or a very open and spacious sound.

I like having hw spring reverbs (for the most appropriate tracks) for just this purpose. Combined with the right stereo verb it can sound majestic!

Also be sure (in Cubase anyway) to set the send panner to link with the channel panner in the channel routing options

[paulie]

it's interesting that people seem to be using them pretty much exclusively as sends...

reason is asked is that i'm really inspired by the production on the scuba LP, and a lot of the time that seems to be very few elements - usually sub, kick, percussion, maybe a synth - filling up the entire mix and sounding enormous. been struggling to get this sound using sends, so i figured that there must be just reverbs inserted on each channel and then carefully EQd and compressed together.

thanks for the replies chaps

I'm not at all keen on commenting on technical stuff, but every single reverb on that LP is a send and very little compression was used on any of the tracks before mastering. EQing reverb is obviously very important though.

[Sharmaji]

^ from the man himself.

i generally like to keep 2 or 3 verbs on sends... 1 long one, 1 short one, and maybe 1 super-short one. All about finding the right 'verb sound; a 2.6 second plate is different from a chamber or hall of that same length. predelay makes a huge difference in your perception of the verb as well.

if use 'verb as an insert, it's generally to really alter the sound-- and usually, it's something gated to be a very obvious lengthening of it. i'll often send soemthing out to my roland spring 'verb, doing the same thing that macc described-- nice and easy way to widen the perception of a sound.

dealing w/ verbs in logic is one of the reasons i'm sold on it-- space designer is a beaut and it's scary how cpu-efficient it is. enverb is pretty fly, too.

[james fox]

i love the internet sometimes - thanks for commenting paul.

back to the drawing board i go...

[hugh]

i use it as an insert in the same way I use every other effect. Im actually surprised people arent fine tuning reverb tailored to each instrument. Surely each channel requires a specific amount of damping and so on?

[setspeed]

i use it as an insert in the same way I use every other effect. Im actually surprised people arent fine tuning reverb tailored to each instrument. Surely each channel requires a specific amount of damping and so on?

not necessarily.

remember that originally, the point of a reverb was to make something sound like 'it's in a space'. you take your dry snare sound, and apply reverb to it, to make it sound like the snare is playing in a room, or hall, or cave or whatever. so then it makes sense that you might want other things going through the same reverb - so they sound like they are all 'in the same place' if you know what i mean

[fiziks]

Don't underestimate the power of mono verbs used carefully as inserts on individual elements, then panned about the soundstage. That can really give a sense of space.

A big stereo verb on a send is nice for general duties, but uses all of the sound stage. If you think of things as -90 to +90 degrees (as some soundfield analysers show), a stereo verb uses the lot. A mono verb only uses that specific direction/angle/part of the field it is panned to, no more, no less. This allows defined directionality/placement of an element and can be used to give extreme width, or a very open and spacious sound.

I like having hw spring reverbs (for the most appropriate tracks) for just this purpose. Combined with the right stereo verb it can sound majestic!

Also be sure (in Cubase anyway) to set the send panner to link with the channel panner in the channel routing options

monoverb with a pan....never ever considered that.

**opens Logic

Personally, I use a bunch of different reverbs. The snare gets it's own and I'll send certain drums to a bus for reverb. Synths and samples get their own reverbs. I'll usually have 2 or 3 aux or busses set up for samples with different effects on them that I'll use as sends. So, it depends on what is getting reverbed.

[abZ]

i use it as an insert in the same way I use every other effect. Im actually surprised people arent fine tuning reverb tailored to each instrument. Surely each channel requires a specific amount of damping and so on?

I use both insert and send. Sometimes you want a verb tailored for a specific sound but I like a few set up as sends to which I may send varying amounts of each instrument as I think it helps "glue" the track together. Too much separation can be bad imo.

[Steve AC23]

from a pc level.....multiple ...reverb.....delay......long releases......rinses ur cpu