DJs Playing Leaks

[doomstep]

I know this is generally frowned upon in dubstep & its pretty much killed off Bassline, pretty interesting thread about it on the ukfunky board;

http://ukfunky.free-forums.org/leaks-vt1118.html

You know what. To me people who play leaks are frauds, straight up and down. I don't business who hears this and gets offended they are straight up COOTS!!

To try and get self hype whilst simultaneously destroying the scene is in my opinion something that needs to get stamped out straight away by whatever means necessary.

I think this is an important topic, especially 'outside' of the scene - I mean you aren't going to play sly mp3s if you were on the bill with Marcus Nasty or Marc Ryder I guess - its up to people to 'do onto others' & make sure the they support the scene & not take advantage.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

[d+]

I know this is generally frowned upon in dubstep & its pretty much killed off Bassline, pretty interesting thread about it on the ukfunky board;

http://ukfunky.free-forums.org/leaks-vt1118.html

You know what. To me people who play leaks are frauds, straight up and down. I don't business who hears this and gets offended they are straight up COOTS!!

To try and get self hype whilst simultaneously destroying the scene is in my opinion something that needs to get stamped out straight away by whatever means necessary.

I think this is an important topic, especially 'outside' of the scene - I mean you aren't going to play sly mp3s if you were on the bill with Marcus Nasty or Marc Ryder I guess - its up to people to 'do onto others' & make sure the they support the scene & not take advantage.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

Killed off bassline? You what (pun intended)

Have you been to the midlands recently? I know I have... Still many bassline raves every weekend and still hear bassline coming out of peoples cars regularly. People are still producing it and spinning it in clubs. Women are still feeling it.

the people playing mp3 rips in raves don't get booked again, simple. I don't know what raves you've been at, but the ones i've been to generally don't book a DJ unless hes certified.

with regards bedroom dj's putting these tunes in their mixes.. then let them do so. its not harming anyone is it? they are only harming themselves as they wont get booked anywhere.

[badga tek]

Good post on exactly this over on Lower End Spasm

http://dot-alt.blogspot.com/

I think that, basically, if you want to download tracks for your own listening enjoyment, then fair enough. But to then have the cheek to put them in a mix and purport to be a better DJ than you actually are (in terms of selection rather than technical ability. Although surely if you're using Ableton the traditional balance between technical ability and selection in DJ-ing is disrupted anyway) is not on.

And he's completely right on LES that the days of assuming that your audience won't know any better are long gone. It seems harder these days to find people that don't DJ than do. Fix up

[doomstep]

Good post on exactly this over on Lower End Spasm

http://dot-alt.blogspot.com/

I know, I wrote it

I think that, basically, if you want to download tracks for your own listening enjoyment, then fair enough.

Yeah, I'd even go so far as to say if it is a genuinely rare tune, long out of print & stupid collectors prices or truly is unobtainable by legit means, its OK to drop it, using those tunes for promo - online or CDs bein passed out, is where its actually fucked.

the people playing mp3 rips in raves don't get booked again, simple. I don't know what raves you've been at, but the ones i've been to generally don't book a DJ unless hes certified.

with regards bedroom dj's putting these tunes in their mixes.. then let them do so. its not harming anyone is it? they are only harming themselves as they wont get booked anywhere.

I totally agree with this & its 100% true. Where its a problem is that these days you don't have just scene specific raves / dances / events / parties / venues. There is ample opportunity for the career minded, internet savvy modern gentle(wo)man to carve out a niche (no pun intended) by appearing to represent somthing they aren't.

Which leads me to;

And he's completely right on LES that the days of assuming that your audience won't know any better are long gone. It seems harder these days to find people that don't DJ than do. Fix up

Which was, I think, the most important point I was tryna make.

Although surely if you're using Ableton the traditional balance between technical ability and selection in DJ-ing is disrupted anyway

That balance is completely gone, there is virtually no technical ablity needed to DJ with Ableton - & I know, cos its what I use - that image on LES is a photo of my lappy; 350 tunes all ready to go, '10 decks' & no headphone / cue mix. The 'Adelaide Deep' mix is 100% live.

Djing in Ableton is 99% about selection & phraseing & 1% about not fucking your levels up! (which DJs of all persuasions struggle with)

Killed off bassline? You what (pun intended)

I'm glad someone pulled me up on that! I know its still going strong! But, there is a real perception, inside & out of the scene, that file sharing / leaking has done a fair bit of damage. Heard a wikid TRC bit the other day called 'Rising Sun' wierd drums!

[dj leeno]

Its a funny subject.

DJ's playin unreleased tunes in sets out in clubs and even putting out mix CD's suck. Most people wont even know but a small percentage including other DJ's will know and you will only make your self look stupid.

I aint gonna lie, I download unreleased tracks and spin them at bedroom nation but wouldn't think about playin them out. If I like the tune I will buy if it is then released. That aint hurting no one is it?

Then there is the question is it killin the scene?

Look at Bassline, massive and file sharing is rife. Heartbroken was being shared about a year before it was released and still went no. 1 with massive sales. Did it get so big through people sharing it? I guess we will never know.

I guess for a producer, if you've made a tune which you think could be massive then seeingit on a torrent or dodgy forum then you might be pissed. Or you can look at it like wow people wanna share my track its getting my name out there for free and spreading my music to more people. When u have made the next tune u think is a banger then u casn be more carefull who u give it to.

[badga tek]

Good post on exactly this over on Lower End Spasm

http://dot-alt.blogspot.com/

I know, I wrote it

Aha, that would explain the 'coincidental' timing of this post and the LSE article!

[doomstep]

Good post on exactly this over on Lower End Spasm

http://dot-alt.blogspot.com/

I know, I wrote it

Aha, that would explain the 'coincidental' timing of this post and the LSE article!

Just something I've been (over)thinking about lately.

[d+]

i dont know how to quote seperate bits of posts

but doom:

i think there are still many raves which ARE scene specific. the format really hasn't changed much from the old days. what has happened though is that a type of rave has popped up for the in-betweeners and scenesters. the people who know they wouldn't fit in at somewhere like sidewinder but still love grime music.. so they go to Dirty canvas. Or the people who have a fleeting interest in london urban music but dont have the means to get to or knowledge of a big rave happening in swindon or milton keynes. and finally the people who just go there because thats what is "cool" at the moment..i remember the first and last dirty canvas i went to seeing these people in flourescent outfits with nike moonboots and fake gold chains.... a far cry from the real raves which used to be associated with the music. but i don't mind - im all for breaking down these boundaries. what i dont like is the leeches and the come and goers.

so alongside dirty canvas i dont even know if its still on, if it isnt im sure something taken its place - you've got fwd. fwd is a great concept and one which i really like. the organisers are ravers from back in the day slash big dj's from back in the day. so they know how to throw a proper party. also they have their fingers on the pulse of the music and have never been afraid to try new things. thats why you've got an amalgamtion at their nights. but fwd is a one off. in my view, the house nights play house (be it uk house/("funky"), us house, deep house, tribal house, soulful house, tech house), the bassline nights play bassline, dubstep nights play dubstep, electro plays electro and techno plays techno.

sure you get some mix and matching (the matter xmas party had move d alongside shackleton alongside dj koze alongside appleblim alongside modeslektor) and u might get d double passing thru at a house night (yooni or fwd) but if you go to a rave nowdays, in general you know what music your gonna be hearing all night.

sorry to slighlty hijack your topic, it was unintentional but im in a talkative mood today and you prompted me to share my views, as i see it.

[ramadanman]

Something that just struck me:

Say you buy a second hand tune on vinyl, play it out in mixes etc

is that any different from

illegally downloading a (Released) mp3 and playing it out?

In both cases, the artist / label receives no money

[elgato]

the people playing mp3 rips in raves don't get booked again, simple. I don't know what raves you've been at, but the ones i've been to generally don't book a DJ unless hes certified.

i got the impression from that thread on ukfunky though that in funky there are some radio or bigger djs who are playing unreleased leaks... if thats the case how is a promoter necessarily to know? if its some new dj who clearly doesn't know the producer and is playing a tune that was up on vip2 then its bate but if bigger djs are playing leaks i guess they need to be named by the producer in question otherwise while nights run by tight-knit will know, the rest may not

[gragy10]

Something that just struck me:

Say you buy a second hand tune on vinyl, play it out in mixes etc

is that any different from

illegally downloading a (Released) mp3 and playing it out?

In both cases, the artist / label receives no money

2nd hand vinyl in general is a whole new can of worms when you put it in the context of P2P's/file sharing and artist/label income..

Can think of a bunch of (admittedly now mostly shut/bankrupt) vinyl stores that were exclusively second hand, and so solely profitting the proprietor, but stores like this are accepted (or missed) as part of underground music by the same people that frequently rage against file sharing and 'the internet'.
Seems to be standard issue muso elitism to me - the whole 'now anyone can hear it' mentality..

[badga tek]

Something that just struck me:

Say you buy a second hand tune on vinyl, play it out in mixes etc

is that any different from

illegally downloading a (Released) mp3 and playing it out?

In both cases, the artist / label receives no money

Well I guess the main tangible difference is that if someone decides to sell on a record then only one other person can subsequently own it (lets not dwell on the obvious point that records can be sold on numerous times) but if someone legally buys an mp3 but then allows others to illegally download it from them then there is no limit on the number of people who can subsequently own it. In short, one person can buy a second hand record and give no revenue to the artist/label but an infinite number of people can download an illegal mp3 and give no revenue.

Obviously, in both instances, the artist would have initially received revenue (from the originally bought record/mp3) but the subsequently illegally downloaded mp3 is far more likely to deprive the artist of potential future revenue.

I can think of many a tune that I've illegally downloaded, loved and then, subsequently, legally bought (normally on vinyl) so I can play out.

[elgato]

spin them at bedroom nation

pure lols on this

[doomstep]

Something that just struck me:

Say you buy a second hand tune on vinyl, play it out in mixes etc

is that any different from

illegally downloading a (Released) mp3 and playing it out?

In both cases, the artist / label receives no money

This one does my nut!

There is a real tension between not wanting to reward speculation; people buying records on a hype thing with the intention of flipping them for profit later on, or just paying mad collectors prices, which don't really have anything to do with the music & the artist isn't going to see any of that cash either. Then there is the other side, that if we didn't have collectors / archivists, & if they aren't rewarded / supported then some great music may get lost in the shuffle, you need those guys hoarding, at a loss - just long enough to realize the pay off.

At least with the 2nd hand record the artist / label has been paid at some point, you'd hope. I do think the music should win out in the end & music wants to be played, its not a collectors thing.

[badga tek]

Then there is the other side, that if we didn't have collectors / archivists, & if they aren't rewarded / supported then some great music may get lost in the shuffle, you need those guys hoarding, at a loss - just long enough to realize the pay off.

At the end of the day, if people didn't (or weren't allowed to - although that would be, in practice, nigh-on impossible to enforce) sell their records on, then an enormous amount of people wouldn't get access to so much music. Personally, I wouldn't have a 2-step or grime vinyl collection. Surely, the benefits here far outweigh the negatives? I would guess that in the majority of cases, the records being sold on second-hand are no longer available to buy new. And, probably, in a lot of those cases, those records have no prospect of getting repressed in the forseeable future. In which case, surely its not depriving the artist of any potential future revenue. Plus, a lot of the people who sell on those records should be allowed to try and get a little money back. None of us have unlimited storage space and rather than be faced by the horrible prospect of having to throw away records which we don't like anymore but are in decent condition, being able to sell them on to someone who will actually play them is a good thing.

Take your point about speculators but its an inevitability really.

[doomstep]

Oh for sure I def. see the benefits, shit I'm selling off my records! But I'd rather someone have em & enjoy em - like I did - than just sit & 'be things' which is what I meant by 'music wants to be played' if its an orig. press you bought for a ton or a ripped mp3 you d/l'd on the sly, the music doesn't care!

Its just one of those things, its a grey area & there is no right or wrong, only tension, push & pull - cos at times one side is right & other times its wrong.

[Jubz]

[62down]

i think this argument lends itself toward the need for vinyl releases ...

it puts a standard on what is released and what is not ...

gives the owner a real sense of ownership, and essentially archives the music for years to come.

i would most definately like to see more vinyl in 'funky'

i think that has been one of the most successful things about the dubstep scene as a whole; its preservation of vinyl/dub culture - (correct me if i'm wrong ... ) - i'm half expecting someone to tell me that rusko plays bare cd-r s ....

essentially - i think mp3 sharing is helping music in many ways to spread to places (and from places) that it never has before ...

there are a lot of artists who practically make it through hype machine these days ...

but re-introducing vinyl as the gold standard of what is played in clubs helps our ears and helps establish pecking order of dj's in clubs ....

keep the black crack alive!

[pidge]

but re-introducing vinyl as the gold standard of what is played in clubs helps our ears and helps establish pecking order of dj's in clubs ....

keep the black crack alive!

[geiom]

lol