is there room for "real" hip-hop in the mainstream

born beyond · Post by **born beyond** » Thu May 07, 2009 11:12 pm

for example the new wu track.. it would have been playing 24/7 on mtv if it had come out 15 years ago.. but could a track with such a relatively pure hip-hop sound become a hit today?

or have the public's aesthetic criteria been shaped in a way that lil' wayne is as pure hip-hop as it gets?

optimum · Post by **optimum** » Thu May 07, 2009 11:37 pm

Lil Wayne > new wu

constrobuz · Post by **constrobuz** » Thu May 07, 2009 11:39 pm

new ghostface/raekwon > anything lil wayne shits out

sigbowls · Post by **sigbowls** » Thu May 07, 2009 11:40 pm

ive heard twisted insane on the radio once but it wasnt the crazy stuff that he usually does

werd2jah · Post by **werd2jah** » Thu May 07, 2009 11:48 pm

kapital · Post by **kapital** » Fri May 08, 2009 12:04 am

It will not be a mainstream hit, no. Yeah I know what you mean....in Canada we got Rap City...which would show all sorts of wild shit. I remember Kilarmy and Royal Fam getting mad spins way back when. Not now though.

It'll be a straight underground banger though...nothing more unfortunately. I'm hyped for Cuban Linx 2!

crowleyhead · Post by **crowleyhead** » Sat May 09, 2009 9:42 pm

Constrobuz wrote:new ghostface/raekwon > anything lil wayne shits out

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

No.

If we have Ghost Vs. Wayne, it makes sense... But...

Raekwon has only started to learn to rap after a decade of doing it.

And if you want to piss and moan about Hip-Hop going horribly wrong, blame that fat fuck.

constrobuz · Post by **constrobuz** » Sat May 09, 2009 10:57 pm

only started to learn to rap? what the fuck are you talking about? i'll take ob4cl over lil waynes whole discography any day.

tacospheros · Post by **tacospheros** » Sat May 09, 2009 11:39 pm

my suggestion : stop giving a fuck about the mainstream

crowleyhead · Post by **crowleyhead** » Sun May 10, 2009 6:09 am

Constrobuz wrote:only started to learn to rap? what the fuck are you talking about? i'll take ob4cl over lil waynes whole discography any day.

You'll take that because that's the greatest Wu-Tang solo album sonically. Fucking U-God could've sounded great with those beats.

ST100 · Post by **ST100** » Sun May 10, 2009 6:24 am

CrowleyHead wrote:
Constrobuz wrote:new ghostface/raekwon > anything lil wayne shits out
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

No.

If we have Ghost Vs. Wayne, it makes sense... But...

Raekwon has only started to learn to rap after a decade of doing it.

And if you want to piss and moan about Hip-Hop going horribly wrong, blame that fat fuck.

uhm...

wat

sirsnaf · Post by **sirsnaf** » Sun May 10, 2009 1:31 pm

CrowleyHead wrote:
Constrobuz wrote:new ghostface/raekwon > anything lil wayne shits out
Raekwon has only started to learn to rap after a decade of doing it.

And if you want to piss and moan about Hip-Hop going horribly wrong, blame that fat fuck.

not sure i understand how you can justify that statement... his last couiple of abums werent great but to try and point to him as the reason theres so much weak hiphop about? thats a fucking ludicrous statement when we have fifty cent, little wayne, soldier boy, flow rider, the game and so on repeadtedly and consistently eroding the popular view of hiphop.

as for this thread - theres no room for real hiphop in the mainstream as its not marketable. end of. i dont think its ever troubled the charts properly this millenium, but thats becuse the mainstream is made for gluttinous swines. nothing 'real' is in the mainstream as 'real' music is made for love not money. yes, you need to make money off it to make it, but the mainstream is a media made market.

j-sh · Post by **j-sh** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:12 pm

I actually think if you listen to some of lil wayne's older/less commercial stuff he's got some pretty sick flows and rhymes - just my opinion

also feeling drake at the moment, definetely tight lyrically although with a fairly commercial style

tacospheros · Post by **tacospheros** » Sun May 10, 2009 8:23 pm

snafu wrote:
as for this thread - theres no room for real hiphop in the mainstream as its not marketable. end of. i dont think its ever troubled the charts properly this millenium, but thats becuse the mainstream is made for gluttinous swines. nothing 'real' is in the mainstream as 'real' music is made for love not money. yes, you need to make money off it to make it, but the mainstream is a media made market.

exactly

crowleyhead · Post by **crowleyhead** » Mon May 11, 2009 12:55 am

I dunno. OBFCL is pretty much the first album ever where a rapper in NY decides "Yo! I wanna be a drug dealer, 'cause they're cool! 'cause that's how you get to be rich! Not 'my lyrics are fly', it's because I ship weight and cause the destruction of millions of lives! That's how dope I am!"

Before, that was all niche shit. Like, Schooly D, not a big part of the picture. Then, we bring in Raekwon and he gets Nas to jump on the bandwagon, calling himself Nas Escobar. Jay-Z doesn't help matters with his stupid bull-shit So now, EVERYONE IN NYC wants to be a drug dealer! Making them uncommercial, and bringing in the rise of R&B Hip-Hop and looking elsewhere, AKA, The South.

Predating all of the rappers Snafu listed by half a decade. You can blame people for not being part of 'the solution', but me? I prefer to go after the source of a problem. And Raekwon is probably one of the top 3 reasons for me, that Hip-Hop started to become bloated and distasteful.

Mad_EP · Post by **Mad_EP** » Mon May 11, 2009 9:27 am

CrowleyHead wrote:I dunno. OBFCL is pretty much the first album ever where a rapper in NY decides "Yo! I wanna be a drug dealer, 'cause they're cool! 'cause that's how you get to be rich! Not 'my lyrics are fly', it's because I ship weight and cause the destruction of millions of lives! That's how dope I am!"

Before, that was all niche shit. Like, Schooly D, not a big part of the picture. Then, we bring in Raekwon and he gets Nas to jump on the bandwagon, calling himself Nas Escobar. Jay-Z doesn't help matters with his stupid bull-shit So now, EVERYONE IN NYC wants to be a drug dealer! Making them uncommercial, and bringing in the rise of R&B Hip-Hop and looking elsewhere, AKA, The South.

Predating all of the rappers Snafu listed by half a decade. You can blame people for not being part of 'the solution', but me? I prefer to go after the source of a problem. And Raekwon is probably one of the top 3 reasons for me, that Hip-Hop started to become bloated and distasteful.

I agree that Raekwon may have started that shit, but the problem was that everyone copied it... not the album itself. Hate on the bandwagoneers.

born beyond · Post by **born beyond** » Mon May 11, 2009 11:21 am

tacospheros wrote:
snafu wrote:
as for this thread - theres no room for real hiphop in the mainstream as its not marketable. end of. i dont think its ever troubled the charts properly this millenium, but thats becuse the mainstream is made for gluttinous swines. nothing 'real' is in the mainstream as 'real' music is made for love not money. yes, you need to make money off it to make it, but the mainstream is a media made market.

exactly

when i say "real" hip-hop i dont mean it in the profound "for the love of hip-hop etc" sense.. what i wanna say with "real" has to do with the sound.. we almost never see tracks with a pure hip-hop sound become hits (or even get a decent amount of exposure) nowadays, but we did a few years back..

and what i'm asking is whether or not you think its even possible for a rapper/group to come out with a purely rap album and get attention in the mainstream.. the game is the only superstar rapper who probably still does it..

and as for you people who say fuck the mainstream, i totally disagree.. if there's no decent hip-hop in the mainstream, the little kids will probably never get into the whole scene.. how many hip-hop heads in their 20's would be listening to this music if it hadn't been so big in the 90's? i for one probably wouldn't..

sirsnaf · Post by **sirsnaf** » Mon May 11, 2009 3:09 pm

@ Crowleyhead - Rae's album is classic, you may not agree with the content, nor the subsequent bandwagon jumpers, but you cant deny its genius. plus, kool g rap did mafia stuff before rae did, and mobb deep came out with it around the same time (tho i dunno which came first?).
also, are we now going to denounce cypress hill and dr dre for bringing weed to hiphop? or nwa for bringing guns?! these groups are legendary, true innovators who have produced material that stands the test of time. the fact people followed suit, and even today still jump on their content, proves how ahead of their time they were. using your (il)logic, we have to denounce the likes Phuture, because theyre the reason we have weak commerical dance music?? or denounce the stone roses and oasis because we have umpteen copycat bands today?? or anyone else whos influenced anyone into copying their style ever....

anyway, im going to stop ranting about that, im going to give myself a stitch.

@ Bornbeyond - i think i get what you mean - but i genuinely believe its going to take something epic to bring a 'real' hiphop sound back to the mainstream. people have tried i think - kweli's eardrum lp was a definite attempt, though its shame it wasnt a great album...

crowleyhead · Post by **crowleyhead** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:00 pm

@Snafu; You have me on G Rap, I have to admit. Though Mobb Deep actually jumped onto Raekwon. Actually, Mobb Deep are repeated dick-riders. They went from Backpack to Hardcore to Drug Dealers to Goons without hesitation. And like I said, OBFCL is INSTRUMENTALLY genius. It certainly stands the test of time better than MOST Wu-Tang solo albums really. But Ghost and Cappadonna consistently leave Raekwon in the dust on that album, and he just sounds like babbling. 90% of his verses are incomprehensible rubbish and weed babble.

But there's a different thing between causing a trend and promoting fucking bull-shit. I mean, you can provide arguments and debates for say, "Criminal Minded" or for NWA. But there was nothing at all even remotely positive about OBFCL. It spat on Hip-Hop, which had spent years moving away from the bull-shit that was fucking up their world, taking stances against it, and instead decided to promote it. Thanks to Raekwon, New York became this lame parody of people trying to out scumbag each other, trying to build themselves up into these action movie villains. It was worse than say, the Gangster Rap of the west coast, because it had no hip-hop attitude in any way. It's totally evil and corrupt, which is a part of it's charm. Your resulting fallout is everyone out 'dark'ing each other, and then, which allows Puffy, who knows that out darking won't make people necessarily like you, to polish his music. Dude threatening you, dude asking you to come in his limo with him to a party? Which is going to sell more?

@ Born Beyond; I think that you're a bit too hypercritical. I mean, I remember Talib Kweli getting in BET's Top 10 like, a year ago? Maybe a little more? And loathe though I am to admit, to see the dude's video fighting it out with all the goons was actually refreshing. Real Hip-Hop is always there and present. But you gotta remember, some of our favorite artists, when they go commercial, they're just not good song-writers in that aspect. Are they great rappers/MCs? Yeah. But that doesn't make them good at writing a song that can be a hit? And let's be fair, that's what labels want, especially as it's fucking hell to even sell a record if your commercial. Fucking Rick Ross is peaking at 150 K, how is *insert better MC* going to do?

kapital · Post by **kapital** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:40 pm

J-sh wrote:I actually think if you listen to some of lil wayne's older/less commercial stuff he's got some pretty sick flows and rhymes - just my opinion

also feeling drake at the moment, definetely tight lyrically although with a fairly commercial style

Tha Block Iz Hot. And those albums he was putting out when he was like 14 with B.G.

Drake >>>CANADA STAND UP! Personally I don't like him that much...but I respect the buzz he has going for him.

is there room for "real" hip-hop in the mainstream

is there room for "real" hip-hop in the mainstream

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