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i know there's been an annoying amount of ableton questions and i've spent a good bit of time looking thru them but im specifically wondering why abletons workflow seems to get so much praise, whereas something like fl studio (what im currently using) is perhaps counter productive because of how linear it is? what is so different with ableton versus all the other daws?

and was also wondering if anyone had any tips to get that wonky, underwatery bleepy sound (think rustie). any help appreciated!

Fl Studio ftw
im sick of all this ableton love on here

3za wrote:Fl Studio ftw
im sick of all this ableton love on here

yea fl is great but i can't help but feel im missing out on something with ableton. perhaps i dont understand it correctly but it seems ableton is more intuitive because you're not using pattern blocks/loops like a standard daw.....i understand live is geared towards performing live, but what is it that makes the program so intuitive and diferent?

3za wrote:Fl Studio ftw
im sick of all this ableton love on here

Man, use what you have. They are all just tools to get your musical ideas out. I know people that have made brilliant records just using fruity loops or just using Reason.

With that said, after using a few different DAW's, that Ableton's workflow allows me to focus more on musical problems rather than technical problems in less time.

But yeah, just use what you have and make beats...

Basically if you want to work in a non-conventional ass hat backward way, regurgitate the company's line all over the internets, then ableton is for you.

Oooo look at me, I use a DAW that looks like a bunch of kid blocks made by phisher price. I'm so different and creative.

Is using demos of all the different ones really good enough to find out which is your DAW? I love reason but I'd like to do look at some other things.

MKS wrote:

3za wrote:Fl Studio ftw
im sick of all this ableton love on here

Man, use what you have. They are all just tools to get your musical ideas out. I know people that have made brilliant records just using fruity loops or just using Reason.

With that said, after using a few different DAW's, that Ableton's workflow allows me to focus more on musical problems rather than technical problems in less time.

But yeah, just use what you have and make beats...

you're right that they're all just tools and that its not the software its what you do with it blah blah, but i'm curious as to why live's workflow gets so much praise over other daws and how exactly is it different. it does get a bit frustrating after a while with fl using pattern blocks and clips....its all a bit too linear at times, so if there's something else out there like live that seems to get around this problem, it's definetly something i'd be interested in looking into more

wayoftheworld wrote:

MKS wrote:

3za wrote:Fl Studio ftw
im sick of all this ableton love on here

Man, use what you have. They are all just tools to get your musical ideas out. I know people that have made brilliant records just using fruity loops or just using Reason.

With that said, after using a few different DAW's, that Ableton's workflow allows me to focus more on musical problems rather than technical problems in less time.

But yeah, just use what you have and make beats...

you're right that they're all just tools and that its not the software its what you do with it blah blah, but i'm curious as to why live's workflow gets so much praise over other daws and how exactly is it different. it does get a bit frustrating after a while with fl using pattern blocks and clips....its all a bit too linear at times, so if there's something else out there like live that seems to get around this problem, it's definetly something i'd be interested in looking into more

Well, with the workflow you can be as linear as you want and as abstract as you want. Shit, I'll just plug my bass in and jam and mess with the audio later. I don't know if I can list all of the things right now, but it sounds like you're interested, just try it out. Maybe someone else here can elaborate on the workflow more.

EZ

Lurq wrote:Basically if you want to work in a non-conventional ass hat backward way, regurgitate the company's line all over the internets, then ableton is for you.

Oooo look at me, I use a DAW that looks like a bunch of kid blocks made by phisher price. I'm so different and creative.

It is a DAW we are talking about not Apple computers. Everyone bigs up the software they use, whatever it is. I don't see many people going yeah I use Cubase but it sucks. Is a Live user fucking your girlfriend? If so, I am sorry I didn't know she had a man.

You can get a pretty quick work flow with anything if you put the time in. I haven't spent significant time with any other app beside Reason and Ableton. Things are way quicker in Live for me because of the fact I don't need to run side applications with it such as Recycle, Sound Fordge and Acid, which is what I had to do! Resizing windows with the mouse is quicker once you get used to it. The fact you don't have to devise work arounds for features that Reason simply doesn't have. Switching tool tips in Reason pisses me off too. There is a pencil tool in Ableton but you don't even need to use it. It is there if you want it though, other than that one tool tip. I don't know about the work flow of other apps because I never got good enough with anything else to really get quick.

I'm not a huge Ableton fan, but for me the advantages to it are:

1) Easy audio editing

2) Easy automation

3) It's ridiculously easy to create effects chains and save them as instruments...coming from Cubase, this is a fantastic feature.

because its like 5 programs rolled into one

check out the "adaptive grid" instead of the lines disappearing when you zoom out to place sounds and midi, it adjusts relatively so the grid zoomed out is at 1 bar and fully zoomed in would be at like 1/16 or something. this gets rid of a LOT of pain of other programs


just go watch some videos on it

check out Tom Cosm's vids

check out youtube

not really something that somebody can explain to you with out showing or just time spent experiementing. i assure you there is a reason why ableton is so popular, its not some meritless b/s like the top 40 songs in the billboard chart...

I used FL as my main DAW for many years, then switched to Live 7 about a year ago.

At first, I kept on making my beats in FL and then exporting as WAV and arranging in Live. After a while I stopped using FL altogether and made everything in Live.

The main thing that drew me to Live is that I think its better for arrangement. What I mean is, that in Live its very easy to move around big sections of your project, including automation, MIDI parts etc. For example, say you decide that your outro would actually sound better as an intro and you want to move the whole 8 bars including automation. In my experience this is not so easy in FL (although maybe its improved in the newest version, I haven't tried it). Especially when it comes to the automation, I hit a brick wall in FL when it comes to moving sections of my tune around.

Live has also saved me HEAPS of time in setting up midi controllers, audio interfaces etc. If you want to quickly record some audio directly into your project, or tap out something on your midi controller, Live is miles ahead in this area. In FL I found myself spending more time setting things up then actually making music, and hardly used my MIDI controller because it was too complicated to get it working properly.

I do think FL has strong points, its very good for intricate drum programming (maybe even better than Live), the sample browser is perfect, and the 3x OSC is fantastic for bass. But if you're talking about workflow, the interface in Live has definitely got a more intuitive, 'drag & drop' feel to it.

I also agree with the previous comment that Live is rolling 5 programs into one, I've stopped using a WAV editor for cutting up samples because now I can do that right on the 'canvas', in the context of the tune itself! I can also use the exact same software for live sets that I used to make the tunes, brilliant!!

One last thing, Live has also saved me a lot of time because it works on both Mac & PC (and is identical on each). If you use the same plugins on both platforms, your Live projects carry across perfectly. This isn't useful for everyone though.

RENOISE FUCKERS

Deadly Habit wrote:RENOISE FUCKERS

you would love follow actions in ableton if you like trackers

its like tracker loops...hell it even looks kind of the same except you can specify what each slot means in terms of timing, and the sample

....nevermind...

word, thanks for all the replies you guys

i like both live AND fl, you guys are a bit wonky in the head


\/ exactly

wayoftheworld wrote:i know there's been an annoying amount of ableton questions and i've spent a good bit of time looking thru them but im specifically wondering why abletons workflow seems to get so much praise!

real time sample browsing that automatically warps to tempo

the way it handles audio is just great

Ableton is cool, and I use it rewired into Cubase all the time.

I prefer audio editing and arrangement in Cubase, less fiddly and much faster.